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39 Male Bisexuality and Being a Boyslut with Zachary Zane

[/vc_column_text][vc_column_text]If you’re asexual are demisexual and only have sex with people once you have a romantic attraction to them, and that’s great too. I want you to own that and not feeling shame for being like, Oh, I don’t have enough casual sex or oh, I don’t want to have sex or sex is not the glue that holds my relationship together, right? Or if you’re someone who’s extremely kinky, I give you the tools to try to find that if you’re someone who’s monogamish, polyamorous, open or super vanilla, it doesn’t matter. I want you to own whatever your relationship is with sex. However, that may look.
This is the ask a sex therapist podcast helping you change the way you look at sex. I’m Heather Shannon, and in a world full of sexual censorship, I’ll give you the raw truth about pleasure, intimacy in your relationships and enjoying your body because it’s time for you to ask a sex therapist. Hey, everybody, welcome to this exciting episode of the Ask a sex therapist podcast, we are going to be talking about male bisexuality with the boys let himself Zachary Zane. So welcome, Zack. How you doing? I’m doing
great. I feel like I have to plug my butt whenever you whenever I say boys slot. I have to hold it up.
So if you’re watching on YouTube, you got to see Zach actually holding his book up. There you go. So Zachary Zane is a Brooklyn based columnist, sex expert and activist whose work focuses on sexuality, culture, and the LGBTQ community. He’s the author of boys slot, a memoir and manifesto, and co author of Men’s Health best sex ever. Oh, there’s a period after each word. He currently has two columns sex plain it the sex and relationship advice column at men’s health and navigating non monogamy at cosmopolitan where he shares all the mistakes he’s made in his polyamory journey, so you don’t have to. He’s also the founder and editor in chief of voiceless zine, which publishes real sex stories from King stars worldwide. His work has been published in the New York Times Rolling Stones The Washington Post, GQ, Playboy, slate, Cosmo bustle vice, NBC dazed The Daily Beast.
Alright, that’s enough. That’s enough. I’m always wondering what bio people have of mine. And that’s, I appreciate it.
Oh, my God, it should have been it started. But I mean, I used to say, Zack that like you have written for some amazing publications, like all over the place, which is pretty cool.
Thank you. I’m trying here. I’m trying my best. Yeah,
I mean, we’ve never chatted before so for anyone listening, I just like stocks back a little bit on Instagram will like stalking never heard anybody. And I was like, Oh, by His writing is really not boring. I need to have this guy.
Yeah, I’m many things. But boring is not one of them. Yeah,
that’s good. It’s a good trait. So can you tell us just a little bit like, or maybe a lot? Like, how did you get in to this? Like, how did you become a sex writer and expert and get into all these amazing publications?
Sure. Do you want the the longer the short of it? The medium, maybe?
Let’s go with medium. But like, I may ask more questions, we’ll see.
Sure. So I thought I was gonna get a PhD in Clinical Psychology. I was actually working at Harvard Medical Center as a smoking cessation researcher and counselor. So figuring out the best way to get people to quit smoking cigarettes, I was ready to apply for PhD programs. And I kind of freaked out. I was like, for this seemingly altruistic profession, they are cutthroat. They’re nasty. They steal your work. It’s six years of a PhD, three years of postdoc, and you just write grants until you die. And I’m like, This sounds horrible. I actually
had the same experience. I volunteered on research at University of Chicago so that I could get a PhD and then also decided not to,
it’s a lot and more power to the people who want them. I just realized that was not for me. Yeah. But anyway, I started writing at work. And because I was a little bit bored, and I remember when I asked my like, PIOs, like, Hey, can you put me on some new studies? She was like, well, when clients need you, they need you. I rather you look like I, by the way, principal investigator of the study, sorry. And so I had like, 20 hours at work, where I could just write and I didn’t want to like conspicuously kind of or to do anything. I didn’t want to like conspicuously like fuck off on Facebook, because it’s just like, not a good look. But if I’m writing in a word, Doc, no one questions. This is fascinating. So ended up to me, I ended up writing a novel, which will never see the light of day terrified 22 But in order to get like an agent, you have to write for certain places. You have to you just have to write for publications. And so I wrote a piece it was for XO Jane, if you remember that site familiar? Yeah. And I wrote a piece and they titled it, I came out as bi and now can’t date anyone gay or straight. And I spoke about how that like, essentially I spoke about how hard it was for me to come out as bi and to embrace it. And then once I did, I thought the world was going to be my oyster. I thought men would want to date me well. wanna move on date? Me? Yeah. And that was not the case. Straight woman would refuse to date me. They would often ghost me when they found out I was by they were so afraid episode. Yeah, there were so afraid I was using the label as a stepping stone on the way to being full blown gay. And then gay men were just extremely pedantic. They were like, Oh, honey, I was by two, you’ll get there. And I’m like, and then they tried to kiss me, I
think for both both groups of people, both groups of people, at least
gay men were at least date and fuck me. But like, women really wouldn’t when they found out was by that I ended up falling in love and dating this by woman. And it was just so incredible. To date someone else who was also by to feel so accepted to not worry about appearing too effeminate, or for checking on a guy or whatever it was. And it was truly incredible. Just a great experience. And honestly, since her I don’t think I’ve seriously dated a straight woman, I’ve only dated by women, in large part because straight woman don’t want to date me. That’s like the truth of it. And I also like dating someone else who’s by and part of the queer community as well. So I’m not dating an ally. So it makes sense. Yeah. But so this piece came out. And it went viral in a way I was not expecting. And part of the reason went viral was because there was such a dearth of bisexual content back then, especially for dudes, especially for dudes still, this was in I think this article came out in April 2015, maybe so about eight years ago. And at the time, like, the content for bisexuality, that was adult was very much like 10 things to never say to a bisexual person, or 10 myths about bisexuality, it was content written about by people to convince gay and straight people that we exist. So it wasn’t actually any information for other by people who are struggling with elements of their identity dealing with internalized by phobia, or their struggles of dating or coming out well by, or whatever it was. And so what ended up happening was after this piece went viral, I was able to kind of like, lean in and started writing by content, as often about male bisexuality specifically, that really focused on like helping by man, I’m no longer trying to prove that we exist, like bi guys know, we exist, I know we exist, you know, we exist, I want some content that can help you live in a world when so many people believe you don’t exist, right? So I through that, I started writing a lot of BI content. And we kind of became known as the BI guy. And then from there, I’ve always been, you know, a sexual person. And for me, my sexuality, and my sex life is really part of my sexual identity. Right? Like I don’t separate the two the way that some people like doing so I actually don’t think so. And I think it’s like a political movement. We need less sex positive movement and the queer movement need to work together. Absolutely. You know, they they really are related here. Yeah. But so yeah, I started reading a lot about bisexuality and then just sexuality and sex in general sex and dating relationships. And that branched out for from queer sex to just male sexuality, which is how I got the column at men’s health and now it’s just kind of expanded out to you know, sexuality and dating and relationship advice for all genders, all sexual orientations, all ages for everyone. Now,
that’s so cool. And it can tell us you talk about it, that you just really love it.
I really do. Like my job. There’s a lot of bullshit that goes along with it, you know, and I think being a new writer and like coarsely, you know, I try not to read reviews, but some people like they love the book, but there’s one sentence that rubbed them the wrong way, and then they hate it. Or just like, there’s, they’re missing the point that Yeah, absolutely missing the point. And there’s just so much a lot more drama that goes into it that I wish was not the case. But beyond that, the actual writing and the actual like book tour, which I’m still on for Pride month right now. Like actually getting to meet people and seeing how my work has impacted their lives and how they feel less alone. Like si p
i live in St. Pete, Florida, and we have this amazing LGBTQ bookstore that is constantly hosting out there. So if you want to have the app, let me know. No, but
it’s like the actual book toward meeting readers has been truly phenomenal and like keeps me going and really makes it like all worth it so that aspects been awesome.
That’s so cool. And I I kind of want people understand to like think until you’ve really put yourself out there publicly in a way like that with like your baby. I’m guessing your book feels like your baby and some Oh yeah,
it’s a baby that was pregnant with for five years, I started writing the proposal and 2018 this was the longest gestation period,
but it’s here now which is really very exciting and but it’s vulnerable like sometimes I think when you’re like a little bit there you go guys. There’s the book if you’re looking but I do love the cover by the way so but yeah, it’s like it’s it’s vulnerable I think to like really put yourself out there and even though you’ve been doing it for a while, it’s like this is your creation so
it’s also I think, when people get a little confused by is the fact that even though I’m very open sexually, so like I have I told you the digital zine also called boys slot, which is either great branding or extremely confusing I haven’t decided yet. I like it. But that z like that scene is really raunchy graphic explicit sexual content. And it’s so much fun. I love writing it. But people assume because I write you know about getting deep heat or my hairy asshole or sucking dick whatever I love. I’m like whispering right now. Oh, no, no, the listeners might hear podcast is marked explicit. Like, you know, I
talked about how I
love gagging on deck, whatever it is, like, that’s actually not me being super open. I’m like, that’s me being open sexually. Right? Being open sexually doesn’t mean like I talked about my relationship with my family. I think a hard part of this book was, you know, going back and looking at a lot of my past relationships where I really hurt people. Of course, it was never maliciously that was not my intent. But when I was closeted, and young and didn’t have the correct information about how to go about rejecting people about how to be honest, like, Yeah, I heard a lot of people in my college days and earlier 20s And, and of course, I still hurt people. Now I do my best not to you know what I mean? And that’s kind of a part of dating. We know, if someone wants to date you and you break up with them, you’re going to hurt them. I try to do so it as kindly and honestly, as I can. But I think that was a struggle too. So this is it’s a different type of openness and vulnerability than what I’m typically used to. So why this feels bigger. Because it is it’s different.
It is bigger. That’s cool. I’m kind of curious about your journey to of just like when did you know that you were bisexual?
It is a journey. It is a journey that I write about all of my book boys side of my bar manifesto. Check it out. You totally should check it out. But so I
give the people a little tease. Yeah,
a little tease. And so, you know, I was always there was always gay rumors about me as definitely more feminists. I liked musical theater. I did water polo, which is the gay a sport of all time. It’s just half naked men grabbing each other’s crotches. And the thing is, I knew I loved woman and I love dating woman. I’ve been heartbroken by women, I pined over women, but I kind of always saw myself somewhat gravitate towards men too. And there were these rumors. And at the time, like, the B and LGBTQ was like very silence, you know what I mean? And like every no one believed bisexuality was real at all 10 years ago, and even when I got to college, like the reason why, so when I got to college, I got drunk to hook up with a guy within like a week to try it out. And I had to get so drunk in order to do it in the middle of him blowing me I want to go vomit twice. Oh, God, it was like, are you okay? Just keep going. And then the next day, I was like, so I didn’t like that experience, probably because I was fucking hammered. Not nervous, not because it was a guy. So I convinced myself I’m like, Okay, I guess I’m straights. But then I kept on getting drunk and blacked out and hooking up with dudes. And mind you at the same time, I’m still hooking up with a ton of women to would think I was gay or straight. I didn’t think bisexuality was an option. And the few guys I knew who were buying college came out as gay shortly after. So it was just like, there was no bisexual visibility in the media. They weren’t like by mail celebrities.
So confusing as young person, it was just
like so what am I why do I keep gravitating towards this? Another compounding factor in this is I have OCD, which I talked about at length in the book. And there’s something called it used to be h OCD now. It’s so OCD but used to be homosexual OCD, or homosexuality, OCD now, it’s a sexual orientation OCD. So a not common, sorry, not uncommon, like obsession, that people that OCD habits thinking they’re gay, or BI when they are actually not. So this can be like a straight father, like, it sounds like, Oh, this isn’t that big of a deal. But you have obsessions with OCD, they’re very intense, or they can be I’ve seen that
with clients and other areas of sexuality, like worrying, they’re attracted to children or something like that.
Also very common, ya know, very common. It’s almost like this fear of it. Yeah, paranoia. But what happens is, these men will like, leave their wives leave their children and, like, upend their lives because they think they’re gay. And they’re actually not. It’s a symptom of their OCD. Yeah. And you actually ask them, like, what is it that you like about mine? They don’t really have an answer. You know what I mean? So I’ve had like psychiatrists in the past that really dismissed me when I said, bisexual, like, Oh, could I be gay? He’s like, No, you’re not like, it’d be bi. And he’s like, Oh, bisexuality doesn’t exist a man is what he said, you really say that? He said that. And this was 2006. So important. He was like treating my OCD, being like, Oh, I don’t want to engage with this because this is an obsession. But in part, this was right after Northwestern came out with their very famous study that then got published in the New York Times and everything. And it was a research study that was like, terribly done. Methodologically like it had a small sample size and it determined bisexuality wasn’t real because of like, people’s erections guys erections while like watching porn, getting straight porn. It was like this terrible study. That like was not about obviously like just levels of erection or like not indicative of. I mean, like, I like indicative of someone’s sexual orientation. There’s so much that goes into it. Yeah. But anyway, so it was very in vogue at this point to say bisexuality wasn’t real. Like and that’s what the research community was saying Northwestern a few years later came out with a study being like, Oh, actually, we didn’t do study and show that bisexuality was real. So it was also at the time too, so I had this, like, I was obsessed about figuring out if I was gay or straight, like on top of just the general confusion that I had that I think added another confusing element. And it wasn’t till it was it was like, after college, I remember talking to my brother. And he was like Zach, you know, I’m the youngest of three boys. And they were like, he was like, you know, I, I also, like, there were gay rumors about me as well. And I hooked up with a couple of guys in college realized it wasn’t for me, like understand exploring, but like you’ve been exploring for like, five years. I got like, a couple of times over the course of a few weeks, like, what point is, right? Yeah, what point you’re no longer like experimenting at one point, like, at one point is like a stable orientation. I was like, Oh my God. I’m getting married to my husband of 40 years. And like on our 40th anniversary, I’ll be like, thank you so much for staying with me as I continue to figure out my sexuality as a straight man being married to you for 40 years. It’s been such a beautiful, beautiful thing in my life. Like, No, I didn’t want that. So actually ended up seeing an LGBTQ affirming therapist. And he I made it very clear that I want to see him because I wanted advice. I like I don’t want a therapist that’s just like, oh, well, what do you think? I’m like, I have OCD. You can’t ask them what the fuck I think my brain is just running in circles all the time. It’s muddled garbage. The whole session, like it’s not actually I need to get out of my head. Like, that’s what I need help with. And I need some guidance with that. And I saw that he was previously an attorney for like a decade or two and then switched into being a therapist. So I’m like, I want that bluntness. So my first session, I proceeded on this, like long soliloquy about how I think I’m gay, and then I think I’m straight, but I do this and spoke about my attractions and how I get drunk and do this. And on the second session, I started again with the same monologue, and he interrupts me goes, I’m gonna interrupt you. Two things. First is like you keep on saying you’re confused. So confused, means something clinically, like when discussing sexual orientation and you don’t sound confused, you kind of aren’t necessarily meeting that criteria. Like, you sound very clearly bisexual. Like, is there? Is there something I’m missing? And I was quick to respond Oh, that shit doesn’t exist in men. And he responded sack you’re too smart to think that which was kind of like the perfect like ego jab, like as well like being like, it’s like, you’re smart dude. Like, In what world? Would that make sense? Like, you’re, you’re only attracted to men only attracted to women, and then only women can be bisexual. But men like it does it logically even make sense? Logically doesn’t make sense, like it does at all. Like when you think of just the diversity of human experience and any capacity, of course, in a sexual capacity as well. So then, after him, I was like, Oh, my God, this is real. But still, it took some time. Like I thought I was bi dash sexual and hetero romantic. So to clarify, that means, you know, I can sleep with anyone of all genders. But in terms of dating, I only have only could love and have a romantic attraction towards women. Yes. And while that is a valid sexual orientation, or identity that was not mine. For me, it was just internalized homophobia and internalized homophobia. And it took me having this whirlwind experience of this man, I met in Provincetown, and like falling in love with him after like, 48 hours. I was like, oh, okay, this, this is not the behavior of a man who is only romantically attracted to women. And so yeah, then then at that point, I kind of, you know, remove the hyphens remove the dashes, whatever it is, now I’m just bisexual. And in every sense of the word,
yeah, that’s, I mean, it’s fascinating hearing about your journey. And like, it’s amazing, you got through it, and got so clear, based on everything you went through, and everything you were told by, like professionals to,
maybe explains why it took so long. I feel like some people are like, how did you not know sooner? Like and not even that long, I came out in 2014 to my parents, and like, publicly 2015 So I don’t say I was 2324 During all this, which is still on the younger side, you know, for this type of stuff. I mean, especially for millennials. I mean, there were some millennials who came in at 1615 The way I feel like Gen Z is now coming out 1615 But you know, and the Gen X boomers, whatever it is, they came out much later so I feel like it was kind of right average, whatever it was for millennials. But yeah, that’s what took five years of getting blacked out and hooking up with guys and in that time, like, it was hard it was I felt so alone and confused and just like I wanted like I wanted to have romantic attract. I want to have romantic relationships. In sexual relationships, I don’t even know who to pursue. I can even enjoy my dates because I’m like driving like men do I even like women? I couldn’t even enjoy sex. I was so in my head. Yeah, it was really challenging. During college, I still dated people. I still had decently healthy and okay relationships while I dated people in college, but it was still like this. You know, in the back of my mind, there’s always this inner turmoil that was going on that was just really Yeah, challenging and, and it also reliving it while writing voice that was also somewhat challenging too, because like, now I’m doing great. Like in terms of, you know, I still make some mistakes in my relationships. I still lay people aren’t right for me. But in terms of like my bisexuality, like I own my sex life, I owe my sexuality. I’m surrounded by people who, like specifically want to date me because I’m by like, not even, like the point where it’s like borderline fetishization, which, whatever I’m fine with, like, who’s really want that I have a huge vi community, all of my friends are bi, like, like, I feel welcomed and loved. And I have a beautiful relationship with my partner. I’m polyamorous like, in terms of like, the life I have now that I’ve kind of created. It’s great. And it’s great. And I believe, I do believe that if you were bi or queer, or whatever it is, like you can have this life to sound like an infomercial. And you can have this life too. But I think we
do. And that’s why it’s important that you’re sharing your story everywhere. And with your book and on your Instagram and all your columns, you know, it really is
like, the the way I’m able to tell my stories because life was so shitty beforehand and being like, hey, like, this is possible. And that’s what I hopefully I try to show my book like it really like you can find your queer community, you can find people who love and accept you and embrace you, which is what we all deserve. And you can have your own relationship with sex. You know, I think because the title boy slide there was some people were like, Oh, this is just for slavery. People like this book. And it’s like, I mean, this book, you know, it’s definitely a shout out to my slides. I’m not saying it’s not Yeah, but but the whole point is about owning your relationship with sex. However, that might look. So that could be you know, getting fucked every day of the week and taking bareback loads and asana and God bless more power to you, I’ll see you in the sauna. It could also be you know, you’re asexual or demisexual and only have sex with people once you have a romantic attraction to them. And that’s great, too. I want you to own that and not feeling shame for being like, Oh, I don’t have enough casual sex or oh, I don’t want to have sex or sex is not the glue that holds my relationship together, right? Or if you’re someone who’s extremely kinky, I give you the tools to try to find that if you’re someone who’s monogamish, polyamorous, open, or super vanilla, it doesn’t matter. I want you to own whatever your relationship is with sex. However, that may look
right. I could not agree with you more. And I think you just said that so well. And that that’s like, my mission is like, can we just get rid of like the shame and the stigma and I mean, look, what I hear in your story is like, it’s kinda like you were told that you’re not you are that your experiences are not real. And it’s like, flick fucked up.
It’s a weird and I know this word is overused, but it’s like it’s like gaslighting. My identity is like very bizarre read just like you are not this and it’s not like it’s like what?
Who are you to tell me who I am.
This also such a weird, like perverse Glee, that mono sexuals like gay and straight people like take and trying to prove that you a proud bisexual person are in fact not by it’s almost like a game for sports or like a devil’s advocate thing where I’m like, this isn’t fun for me, like I don’t like I don’t enjoy having to justify my sexuality and I don’t have to justify and that’s what I write in this book to where it’s like, I have a section a chapter where it’s literally like probably 20 or different responses I’ve heard to people coming out as bi or to me sorry, people responding to me saying I’m by and how I have responded and how I wish I’ve responded. And one thing I kind of make clear in this. It’s a really divergent section from the rest of the book, which is you know, more memory where this one is more of the Nanofab manifesto element what’s meet giving more advice, because I am a sex advice columnist. You know, I felt like I should throw that in there. One thing I tried to make clear is like a you don’t actually have to prove yourself to anyone and you not engaging with them is actually more likely to change their beliefs. The moment you actually play their game and by their rules, and you’re already on the defense and trying to justify yourself, they’ve already won. So when they’re like, oh, I don’t think your bike is blah, blah, blah. I go okay. Then like, like, like, and literally they don’t know what the fuck to say or do because like they’re ready for this argument. And it’s like me showing that like, I’m so secure in my sexuality and my identity. I don’t need you a random fucking stranger who I’m definitely not going to fuck anymore. Like, you’re telling a slight like, I don’t need your validation because Who the fuck are you? I don’t care. You’re a random person. I’m so secure in myself. And I think by realist, when I’ve done that, they actually are more likely to then believe bisexuality is real. Like then actually then a well executed coherent argument like that actually is not going to sell them.
I like that. It’s like, just be you, you don’t have to convince anyone that you are, you know, and you know, part of what my other agenda is that I like to promote sort of awakening and consciousness and it’s like, the most enlightened thing is like, Don’t resist. Like, if someone’s coming at you with something. It’s like, okay, cool. That’s their shit. You need to resist that you’re doing you? Absolutely. Yeah. So maybe you’re just like a voice like Buddha.
voiceless. Oh, my God, I love that. Feel free
to steal it.
I don’t think I’ve earned the title just just yet. I still need to work on the path. I can tell. I’m on my path. I’m definitely on my path here.
But yeah, so that’s super fun. The other thing you mentioned that you want to chat about the I’m curious about, I have to look up this word for asexual, please enlighten us on that.
Sure. So this was something where I’ve almost expand like grown a little bit since it being in the book. But so free sexuality, I think is often easier to explain an opposition to Demi sexuality, which people are more familiar with. Okay. So dummy sexuality means that you only have sexual attraction to people once you have a romantic or an emotional connection. Right? So you don’t really see someone on the street and like, Oh, they’re super hot, I want to jump their bones. It’s only after you have a you know, heart to heart with them. And you feel mostly connected. Do you want to jump their bones? Yeah. And then there’s kind of free sexuality, which is the opposite of that, where it’s like, actually, once you have an emotional connection, you don’t want to have sex with them anymore. So it’s like these people prefer to have like, for these people like sex is usually about like the novelty, the excitement, you know, they prefer having sex with strangers or casual sex or kinky sex, whatever it is. And sex is not really the glue that holds the relationship together. It’s not how they express their intimacy. And the reason why I talked about this book was not to be like, Oh, look at this new sexual sexuality that’s well defined to me, it was more so to be like, hey, no matter what your relationship is, with sex, you can find a partner that matches you. So you could be demisexual for asexual, whatever it is. But I’ve received a lot of flack for this, because a lot of people are like, Oh, my God, it just seems like this person has emotional intimacy issues or avoidance, the issue is our sexual trauma. And I’m like, these people might you know what I mean, I’m not, it’s kind of up to them as to whether or not they want to work on it. I also believe that this could probably be hardwired as well. Right? So I think it’s probably I think for some people, it’s just more hardwired the relationship with sex. For other people, they have sexual intimacy issues. So they claim this identity label. And I’m like, Okay, well, first of all, so many of us have intimacy issues, and have avoidant see issues. Like everyone’s like, Oh, well, this guy’s just a fuck boy. I’m like, Well, you don’t have to date him. Wouldn’t you much rather him voice that this is his relationship with sex before you have sex as opposed to him having sex with you twice? him wanting to not have sex with you, but still want to date you and you being left? super confused, right? But like, yeah, it’s a way where people get really friendly, like, Oh, this is just fuck boy behavior. Like, yeah, it could be but like, hey, they’re being honest about it. They can be hardwired this way. And also, like, I feel like often a lot of people like having sex with new people in sex is about the novelty and the excitement and less so yeah. And it’s less so about, you know, like, this is how we show our love for each other. But like people, like got really frustrated with this one, in a way where I’m like, hold, like, hold on. Like, also, it’s like, first of all, like people have y&z issues and commitment issues are gonna figure out a way to do that, regardless of a label or not here. But I really just think, like, what this was supposed to show was really like you can have a different type of relationship with sex and still have a fulfilling relationship. Right?
Absolutely. And I mean, it’s fascinating to me, as you explain these things, too. It’s like, people just keep rejecting things that they don’t understand. And I think what I want people to understand is like, just because you have a certain experience doesn’t mean everyone else needs to have the same experience, and beautifully different.
And I get it, you know what I mean? Like, we are like, these people, I’m sure the people have the most issue with this label are probably, you know, women who have been fucked over by shitty dudes who lost interest in sight, you know, and who were lied to them, or were avoidant, or whatever it was. So it’s a lot of projecting. I mean, that’s what I see when most people get really upset about something where I’m like, this has nothing to do with you. You know what I mean, when this has nothing to do with you. And they get really, really upset by it. I’m like, Okay, so who hurts you like what’s going on here? How did this because this has literally nothing to do with you right now. And you’re getting really, really upset. So there’s some projection going on. There’s some denial going on. There’s some hurt and pain going on. Because this thing like yeah, people got really upset about this, like, oh, as accurately as emotional intimacy issues. I’m like, Yeah, I’m sure of course I do this, so do we all and I’ve also kind of grown or with my partner now like sex is one of the things that really holds us together in a way and I love having sex with her. And it’s awesome. And it’s been, you know, past that time period where usually by now I’m like, okay, really itching to move on, but it hasn’t been. So you know, it’s a fluid identity, just like anything else. But it’s Yeah, I think I’ve gotten some weird responses to it. I’m like, What is hope? Again, I just want to hurt you guys. Right? I mean,
I think that’s kind of a real question. Because we all have been hurt. You know, I do think that like, for everyone listening, like, that’s our responsibility. So it’s like, whatever you’re triggered by, that’s a sign like, that’s a sign that there is a wound there. And then like, go find a coach or therapist and like, do some healing work, because you deserve to not be triggered by shit. Yeah. And like, the more you’re healing yourself, the more you’re just gonna be like, cool. I’m gonna let other people be them.
Yep, absolutely. It’s, it’s really? Yeah, I think that’s one of the biggest things I’ve learned in writing. I mean, I’ve been writing as a sex homeless for a long time. So like, I’ve got this before, but now I’m getting it at such a larger scale. And it’s such a much more personal attack, where I’m like, Hey, like, wow, people really can’t, can’t separate between, like, oh, I can separate these things, and really don’t want to look inward and see what’s going on themselves.
I also think you bring up a good point that like, maybe you evolved, but also maybe your current relationship is just different. I think
that’s true. Like, it could be that this is relationship with each person, you know, for whatever the reason, like everything doesn’t have to be so set in stone. You know what I mean? I feel like for a while, especially the LGBTQ community really wanted to make things more set in stone because they felt like unjustified our sexuality. So it’s like the Born This Way idea that’s like, oh, gay people are born this way, we cannot change and validates us, versus like, the argument that it should have been is, what if we’re like, What’s wrong with being gay? Like, even if we even if we were not born this way? If I, if I chose it, what’s right. So I feel like there’s always somewhat of this fear of when we talk about fluid relationships, or fluid identity is that it can actually then be hurled against us, you know what I mean? Then there’s, you know, conservatives, or religious religious zealots are kind of like, well, it’s fluid. So therefore, you can be straight. It’s like, well, no, that’s not what we mean by fluid. Like, like, that’s not where we’re going with this. But I that’s one thing. I always try to have that balance with, like, yeah, things can be fluid and change. But again, that doesn’t mean that can be straight tomorrow. Be straight or cisgender. Tomorrow, just because or whatever. I mean, I’m cisgender. But you know, I mean, if someone who was trans or non binary, right, like, yeah, they can very much use this fluidity against us. But I actually think when it’s used correctly, it’s a beautiful thing and allows us to grow and change in the way that we see fit.
I couldn’t agree more. I mean, my whole thing is sort of like sexuality as like a personal growth journey, and just like an exploration journey, and you know, even with like, the gender stuff that’s been coming up, like all in like the legislation and all over social media, you know, people will kind of say, well, some people D transition, it’s like, Sure, a smaller percentage will, but like, who cares? Like that’s for them to decide? You know, I think it does go back to you know, we think we know what other people should do or if we can point to like, someone made a wrong decision, or this is like a failure or see whatever. It’s like, maybe someone got a boob job and then chose to get the implants removed. You know, I just kind of feel like it’s none of my business.
People really do love policing other people’s bodies. I know.
Right? Like, we all get to do what we want to do. Yeah, I live in Florida like I do.
You get to do nothing. That’s actually one of those.
Yeah, or you could do so I was just like, harder and like more consequences. But anyways, I’m like in a little nice progressive enclave of Florida. But anyways, back to you Zack. So like, what, I guess I’m curious, like, what have been some of the biggest things you’ve learned on your journey. He’s like, your journey, like you’ve been like, all in on this journey is like how I would put it because I just feel like, you know, the average person maybe is not gonna go as all in as you but you know, what, I don’t know, what can they learn from your experience?
I think the larger takeaway, and if I already hit on this a little bit, sorry for being slightly redundant here. But I really think that you can own whatever your relationship was sexes. And I talked about this in the book where like, I say, learning that I’m not special was one of the best things about me. And when I say special, I just mean like, actually not unique and my sexual orientation are not unique in my desires. So they’re actually even if you know, only 1% of the population, has my kink that’s still 800,000 People do the math, right? I think so. 800,000 people if they’re 8 billion of us, that like have that kink, and now you can connect with all of them on FetLife you know what I mean? So like, realizing, when I thought I was so alone, and so different, that’s when my mental health took a turn for the worst right when you feel so alone and isolated. I really think Shame like thrives in isolation. 100% Yeah, it was terrible feeling so alone. And then when I was able to embrace these elements of myself and really start looking for my community, and it took me a while to find it, and now I’m part of this, you know, bisexual polyamorous kinky community in New York, that’s amazing, which, which is truly amazing. And when I think about sometimes leaving New York, because you know, they’re rats the size of chihuahuas, that brush up against my leg, when I walk home from the subway, I’m like, I don’t leave because of my friends, because of this community that I’ve cultivated and took a while to get here. And now I feel so supported and so loved and so seen. And so there’s nothing like it, and so create this
community, or is this like a preexisting thing that
you kind of both both, you know what I mean, I think I definitely helped to create it, I didn’t go into a space. And together, we kind of built it the way that we wanted it to be built. But we have our own discord chats, of course, called home and it’s like, 40 of us. And it’s this Yeah, it’s very bisexual and polyamorous and supportive. And we have, you know, various channels for just literally supporting each other asking each other’s questions, whatever it is, and it’s great. It really is great. And it’s something that I really do believe anyone can find, again, it takes work it takes effort to do so it’s putting yourself out there going to the spa, you know, getting online, you know, honestly, like it’s much easier actually, when it’s like sex positivity stuff. So a lot of like bi spaces are really there aren’t that many bi spaces, but the ones that do exist are very sex focused, and actually do feel bad for my friends who are like monogamous, or more vanilla and don’t want to go to a sex party, because that’s how I actually ended up meeting a lot of bi people, which is great for me, which I mean, I love that. But like, I wish there were some more bi spaces that didn’t necessarily center around sex, which is what they tend to be at the moment.
So what is your mentioning this? I’m thinking like, what resources would you recommend? Like if there’s somebody listening who, you know, is a guy who’s maybe never come out, but like, has some interest towards men or thinks he might be bisexual or hasn’t told his wife yet? Or, you know, I’m just thinking of like, some real scenarios and some imagined? Yeah,
well, some, I mean, honestly, there’s a great community online, obviously, like Twitter can be a hellscape. And so can off social media. But you know, when you get on by Twitter, or by Tiktok, or Reddit actually has some great bisexual support groups. Yeah, and you can actually just like, first start by finding a digital community, because we’re able to do that right now to meet with other people. And then you’ll learn that some people actually live in your area, and then all the sudden you meet up with them, they have other friends and community, they introduce you. And before you know it, you have this huge friend group. And it honestly sometimes happens like a switch raft, people being like, I haven’t been able to make friends or find a bike community and so long, it’s been five years and they’ll listen they meet this one person who then opens them up to this other scene, and it just like switches immediately. So like don’t necessarily give up hope there but I think initially like working with virtual spaces to do that, and then from that, trying to, you know, find a community outside of those spaces and meeting up in real life but you know, Googling bisexual meetups, you know, groups near you seeing what’s going on. And that’s, you know, the way to meet people.
And would you say specifically looking for bisexual ones are not just like LGBTQ?
Depends what you want, you know what I mean? They’re the people who go to we all struggle with various different things. I like the BI ones more specifically, but sometimes LGBTQ. But I feel like you know, there’s different like AAA versus na versus other things because they know that there’s a difference between like, oh, alcoholics, and drug addicts not comparing gays and bisexuals, alcoholics and drug addicts here as a group, but just being like, okay, might actually be better to have a different group or if they don’t have a bisexual, specific Meetup group. Then of course, go to a larger LGBTQ, okay, cool. Okay.
So if someone’s like, okay, cool. How do I find this on Twitter? Like, do they just look for hashtags? Honestly, at this point,
look for hashtags. I mean, Google’s great, you know what I mean? Like, bisexual accounts to follow on Twitter, Google that right now. And then you’ll see the support like the link to various accounts, by activists, you should be falling online. It’s like, yeah, Google has made shit really easy. You know what I mean? Like EBT
chaps. GPT is like my new buddy. Whoa, I didn’t
even ask about this. Can you ask chat? GBT? Where are bisexual meetup groups?
Oh, yeah, I probably could. I could probably be like,
where’s like, who are the biggest bisexual activists on Twitter or Instagram?
So the only limitation with chat GBT? Is that the cut off for information is September 2021. So if it’s anything that’s like, super recent, it won’t but interesting. Let’s ask it. Who are the best bisexual influencers to follow? I feel like it always like prefaces its answer to
something like this could be extremely racist and we’re sorry about that.
Okay, so starting to give me answers. So think Bella Thorne, actress, model singer who gained fame from her work with Disney Channel, noticing If they were all assigned female at birth so far, Evan Rachel Wood, Janelle Monae. Okay,
so commerce celebrities. Okay, so they’re pulling from like here the 10. Yeah. Bisexual celebrities.
Celebrities. Yeah. Shane Dawson. Jillian Michaels. Yeah. So yeah, they’re right. They’re not as much like, bisexual influencers specifically, so it failed us slightly, but it gave us some names
that we know celebrities are by here.
So anyways, you can find people, you can find resources and community pretty easily if you try, but I do think you got to put some energy into it. It’s worth it. You know, it’s like you deserve like, Zach is experienced, like, find your community, you know, and to be fully accepted.
You know, almost think of it like dating, you know, when you’re just like, oh, that’s a pain in the ass, like texting these people and going on a first date. So a lot of them are duds. Like, that’s what’s going to happen. But if you want to find a romantic partner, you have to go on date. So that is the deal. So yes, it’s gonna be slightly annoying at times, you know, you’re gonna go to event and three people will show up and you’ll be a little discouraged. Right? Then you get back on the horse the next week, though, that’s how it works. Yeah.
And I kind of want to say, so I just did an episode on am I queer? Are you queer, and how everything is very fluid. And so while I’m not 100% straight, I am mostly straight, just like to say to other straight women out there that like, male bisexuality is real. And like, this doesn’t mean that, you know, they’re not into you. And I do think that we have to get over that. And I also think, you know, that it’s important for dudes to, like, bring it up, you know, and to be, but to feel safe. It’s like, like, it’s both right, you got to make people feel safe, and hold the space. And then also, you got to kind of be brave and like, say things to the people. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it’s
tough, like bisexual people are the least likely to come out to like their peers, their partners, their family. And then a large part of that is because there are so few bisexuals like come out. So you know, it’s almost this, you’re going around in a circle here. It’s like why people don’t come out because other people don’t come out so you don’t come out. So they’re white people don’t come out. So we got to kind of break that cycle. And that’s hopefully what I’m trying to do in the book. It’s just being like really starting to claim this label be open about it, talking about it. And I talked about this in the book too, where it’s like, it’s very difficult to be visibly bisexual. So bisexual visibility is tough, because unless of you have, you know, a man on one arm, a woman on the other arm and like a non binary person on your third arm, like and that sounds like
really making out with all of them. And yeah, like,
I’m going to show this. So I coined the term in the book called bisexual audibility. And I’m like, what this means is like, because we can’t be visible the same way we need to embrace the label, say the label, talk about being bisexual as much as possible, be as obnoxious about it as humanly possible. And I feel like many of us are great at that. So let’s keep it up.
Good job team. Thank you so much for being here. And I’m wondering if you could just tell people like Where can they find you? Where can they find your book? Who is your book? Good for
good? Yes, yes. Yes. So my book is good for everyone. You know what I mean, but I’m gonna read it.
I’m gonna be reading it this week. You know, parts of it are very raunchy, it’s very humorous. It’s, you know, it’s not for the faint of heart, I will say, and you know, but it’s particularly well this book is for everyone. I really think if you are by queer, gay, kinky, polyamorous this book is really really for you as well. So the book is called boy sled. It’s a one word because if you did, if we did this two words, it actually got like dinged on Amazon like they wouldn’t because sloth would be registered. You know what I mean? So that’s why it’s a one word. So you got to google it is one word on Amazon. Okay, boys slots sold anywhere books are sold, and you can follow me at Zack reason.com is my website. I’m officially off Twitter. Now. I’m very proud of myself. I just have it there. It’s not great for my mental health. And I’m not seeing any traffic from it. So it’s just there. I don’t use it. But I’ve used Instagram all the time. That’s where my most fun Yeah, and
that’s how I found you and your now again, he’s not boring guys. So follow him.
Zachary Zane underscore the underscores at the end of it. Yeah. And we’ll
link to all of it in the show notes. And on my website. We’ll also have a page with ABS episode with all the links as well. So fabulous so much for being here.
Thank you so much for having me on.
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