📍 📍 📍 📍 Hello, my loves. I am here with a very different guest than we’ve had before. And so as usual, I’m very excited about it. So Christina Braver writes steamy, small town, contemporary romance, usually set in the Pacific Northwest. Her stories are about strong heroes with small towns. Softer sides, independent heroines, and a bit of sass and the guaranteed happily ever after that we all need.
She has a master’s degree in clinical psychology and uses that knowledge to create well rounded character driven stories described as a little bit nerdy and a little bit dirty. Influenced by books and information from prominent sex therapists, her novels bring toe curling spice and real life sexy tips, as well as addressing deeper issues such as women’s sexual health and sex positivity for everyone.
So welcome, Christina. I’m really excited to have you here.
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be here. I love to talk about this stuff.
I mean, me too. And it’s, it’s awesome to have two, you know, people with therapist backgrounds who like talking about sex. Um, but I specifically love that this is what you do. It’s, it differentiates you from other romance writers. And I know I personally have read romance novels where I’m just like, Oh, cringe.
Oh, this is such bad messaging to share with the public, you know? So just to feel like, Oh, this is so nice that there’s someone out there, like actually putting Um, educational, helpful examples out into the world in a sexy way. Love it.
to. Absolutely. Um, I completely agree with you. I’ve read a million romance novels and some of them, most, a lot of them, you know, it is, I, I do, I sort of cringe a little bit about, Oh, that’s not, you know, for example, I listened to your podcast and, you know, in preparation, I listened to a podcast where you talked about, you answered some, um, questions and you talked about dick size
Oh, that was a decent one. Yeah. That’s the people love the listener Q and A’s. Yeah.
right. And I thought, you know, romance novels, that’s kind of one of the things that has perturbed me about romance novels is that the dicks are always big and they’re always, they’re always fabulous. You know, it’s so good, you know, and, and that is not. Realistic. Um, it’s possible, I’m sure for a, a, a big dick to be super satisfying, but tip, but typically, uh, studies show that, that women prefer more of an average size dick.
Um, yeah, I listened to an other podcast and, uh, and the, one of the guests called it boyfriend dick, which I thought was super smart, a super great,
I love that
B,
too. Right. It’s
the new
just
D. Right. Right. The new BDE in the world is not big dick energy. It’s boyfriend dick energy.
It reminds me of Goldilocks, you know, it’s just
right. Right. And, you know, it was kind of the concept that like a big dick is, is fun for a one night stand.
But if you want to go, if you want to have multiple rounds in a night and maybe wake up the next morning and have another session and, or maybe go away with your lover for a whole weekend, you’re not, you don’t want the big dick guy. You want, you want the average, you know, you put the average guy,
that was kind of why I got that question from a guy with a ginormous penis It’s because he’s like this has actually been a problem in my life and I’m like, yes, I believe you Right, and then unfortunately, I think what happens is some guys with smaller penises Just cannot believe what I am saying. And they think all of the sex therapists out there are just saying what I think they want to hear.
And so I have like a couple of comments on that YouTube, uh, version of the podcast already. And they’re both guys with smaller penises who think I’m like, I’m like, okay, great.
Right. 📍 You know, and, and romance novelists are potentially, you know, part of the problem, you know, media tell, you know, porn and media tell, tell men that this is what they need when in actuality,
Yeah.
right. You know, when in actuality, if you kind of compare the, you know, there’s, I think I read some research where like 90 percent of guys have, you know, a penis between like 5.
1 and 5. 5 inches. And then another study kind of showed that. Eight, around 85 percent of women who are having sex with a partner are satisfied with their partner’s size. So if you put those two things together, you’ve got a lot of people enjoying a regular, just a regular average size penis. Right. And so what is all the fuss about?
And, um, so one of the things in my, in my books is a few of a couple of my heroes do have big penises, but it is not this panacea. Um, you know, one, it’s more one of the, I think. In all of them, the women, and I think in both of them, the women are sort of like, Oh, but, um, you know, what, like what, what, um, but one of them in particular, she, it doesn’t have very much experience and he, he is in a role of sort of teaching her.
And he, you know, she’s like, I don’t think that will fit. And he’s like, it will, it will actually fit, but here’s what we’re going to do to make it easy and better for you. And like, he’s super conscientious about her and making sure it’s okay for her. And then aftercare, um, you
Oh,
a nice,
new for a romance novel. Yeah. That
a nice cool cloth, um, to sort of help soothe some of those tissues that might have come, gotten a little irritated having been stressed.
So it. It’s still done in a very sexy way. It’s not, I try not to make it, you know, super clinical, but I do try to model those behaviors of conscientious lovers that, you know, say, you know, this, this having this big dick thing is not. All it’s cracked up to be. You know, all everybody says it’s this wonderful thing and for some it is, but the vast majority of women out there, um, are gonna be satisfied, uh, with whatever Dick, her lover has , you know, um,
true. And I, and what I’ve said also is like, I’ve, I’ve talked to female clients or couples, you know, where the partner does have a smaller penis and he thinks it’s just the end of the world and she doesn’t even mention it. Like when I talk to her alone, cause it’s a non issue. So I think that is actually very interesting.
and you think about it, um, the VA vagina has very few nerve endings compared to the clitoris, right? The clitoris is estimated to have like eight to 10,000, whereas the vaginas, I haven’t seen an estimate of actually. How many are, but it’s reports say it’s like considerably less, right? And most of them are around the opening of the vagina.
So the vagina is not where our pleasure is centered. Um, and so the, the, the focus of the penis in the vagina is sort of the wrong place to put the focus. Um, the focus
Not to say it can’t be fantastic, but when it’s like, this is the be all end all, we’re missing some very important parts.
Correct. That’s what I mean. Yeah. I mean, you know, penis and vagina sex is awesome. I think I can speak freely and say that I, I enjoy it a lot, but it’s not, it’s not the end all be all of the world. And I once heard, um, I was doing some research on sex after 60 and some of the men were complaining, you know, well, you know, it doesn’t always work.
And one of, one of the respondents that was being interviewed said, well, you know, as long as your tongue works, you’re good.
Thank you. Right?
Sir, you, could you go on a speaking tour? Like,
Yeah. Right. Like fingers, tongues, toys, we have many options, people.
lots of options, which often are better than, you know, I mean, penis and vagina is awesome, but toys, hands, tongues are often better, uh, stimulating the clitoris than penis and vagina.
always remind people that the research also shows that when it’s a lesbian relationship, There’s actually a higher level of satisfaction and there’s like the, the frequency of orgasms is also significantly higher than when a woman is with a man. So how do you explain that? Right? There’s no penis involved.
Right. So I, you know, I think this is a little bit of, um, You know, body shaming from men to men in this, in the same way that I think women body shame each other, women need to be stick thin when research talking to men, a lot of men prefer curvy girls with a little bit more meat on them, you know, something to hold
one of them. Yeah.
So many of us are right. So many of us are, and a lot of men say we prefer that yet women tell ourselves we have to be stick then to models. And so, and in the, you know, speculation is that a lot of that idea comes from other women saying, this is, this is the ideal beauty. Um, so.
It’s almost like these things just catch fire. It’s like they become trendy in a societal way. And like, it’s actually really interesting talking to you about this penis size thing. I wasn’t even expecting us to go in that direction. But, um, in my mind it’s like, even though I’m totally with you on all the things you’re saying, it is kind of hard to imagine a romance novel with, you know, A guy that doesn’t have a big penis.
It’s like, well, of course, that’s what they’re going to make it. Cause this is like this symbol of like male virility and like, um, sex appeal and like all these things. But it’s like, it is really interesting that it doesn’t track in practice.
In reality. Exactly. Like, yeah, this big penis, this has become this sign of all I have to do is have a big penis and I’m going to be good in bed. I’m going to make her happy.
that’s a problem.
And that’s not the truth. And so, um, yeah. So anyway. Yeah. Sorry. We, we jumped right into the meat there, but
that’s great. This will be a great, people’s attention will be grabbed. Um, so, but yeah, I think that’s like a really great point that so many people do who do have a larger penis. They’re like, well, I don’t have to do anything now because I have this amazing penis, right? Like check me out. And then I think they can wind up being lazy lovers and I think 90 percent of women plus would rather have someone with, you know, an average sized penis who really puts the effort in.
Well, and I, I sort of. You know, as, as I think about this, um, I don’t know that women are really fantasizing about a big dick specifically. I think a couple of things women are because romance novels are really about fantasy and we can, we can talk more about that. But, um, I think women are either fantasizing that, um, it doesn’t, uh, their partner has a big dick and it doesn’t hurt.
Mm hmm.
Or I think what you’re talking about is, you know, big dicks have been, um, uh, 📍 assumed that guys who have big dicks are super virile, super masculine, super tough. And so a guy with a big dick who now falls on his knees. In real love for this heroine, you know, the fantasy is the bad boy redeemed or the obsessive lover, the person who’s just overcome with love for you.
And so if there’s a physical characteristic, you know, they’re all some of these heroes, they’re all like really big and built and they have big dicks and they’re just. On their knees for this woman, this, you know, fairly average woman, maybe, or a beautiful woman and, you know, and just obsessed with her or, you know, completely love her.
And that’s a very common fantasy, the bad boy redeemed and then, um, the partner who is so obsessed with me that they, you know, can’t control it or whatever, which. Which, you know, which kind of segues into fantasy, which we can talk about. Another thing that sort of bugs me about,
Hey Christina let’s
I have, let’s get through it.
You’re a therapist. Well, you know, well, this is a therapy session. Um, so the, the idea of, um, it’s out there that women have what’s called rape fantasies, and, and this is, you know, In the world. And it’s called a rape fantasy, which I, I struggle with that language because rape is about violence and the fantasy, the fantasy is not about violence, right?
The fantasy about is about someone being so overcome with passion and lust for me that they can’t control themselves. Women are not
automatic,
also deeply problematic, but also.
non consent is a term.
Correct. Exactly. But that’s one of the beautiful things about the, one of the fantasies about romances or one of the beautiful things about romances is you can do all these things in a safe space.
You can have all of
true.
right in a, you have a safe space to have dreams.
your mind is the safest space. It’s right there in your imagination.
Exactly. Well, and you know, studies show that our brains often light up the same way, like when we’re doing something and then, um, we’re reading about something, 📍 there are parts of our brains that light up the same way when we’re watching something or doing something. There’s parts of our brains that light up the same way.
Like it’s scary, scary movie at the movie theater, right? Everybody’s got their knees up in there because their brains think that what that what’s happening on the screen is actually happening to them.
That’s why I don’t go to those. It’s too real for me. Yeah,
honestly, I don’t understand it. But. That’s, I don’t want to yuck anybody’s yum.
If that’s your thing, go right ahead, but not me. Um, but so that’s the beautiful thing about romance novels is that it’s a safe place to sort of experience some of these fantasies that you might have about, uh, multiple partners or a partner who is obsessed with you or the bad boy who’s dangerous that you would never give, you know, never give the time of day to.
like that. Yeah.
You know, in a romance novel, uh, it’s totally safe for you to just go all in with this guy. One night stands, one night stands are super popular in romance novels, right? Pardon?
STIs if it’s in a romance novel.
Right. Though, though we do, I think there’s a big push to, um, talk about being clear. You know, I’ve been tested. Right. You know, I’ve been tested and,
I like that.
and, and a big push towards consent. Um, you know, kind of sexy consent. Is this okay? Are you okay? Um, so yeah, but it, I think you can have those one night stand, like a one night picking up a guy in a bar and going home with them is a risky behavior
Yep.
across the board, right? But in a romance novel, I can, I can pick up a guy and go home with him in five minutes. And totally be safe, you know, so that’s one of the beautiful things about romance novels and
I like that.
📍 📍 📍 📍 I mean, thinking about this, it’s interesting to think about, like, how the romance novel industry impacts people, and it’s making me curious about, like, how big is this industry? Okay.
it is huge. It is huge. Uh, 1. 4 billion in sales annually. So romance makes about what all the other genres put together. Make
Oh my god,
right.
crazy. So like all those like self help books and everything, romance is just like killing it, knocking those out of the water.
Right. Knocking those out of the water. Yeah. It’s a huge, huge industry, which is one of the reasons that, that I’m. I want to do this. I want to put real sex information into those books because it’s getting out into the world at a rate that not, not very much else is, um, you know, and there’s maybe there’s maybe people that are reading a romance novel is their only exposure to agency, uh, right to say no, even if they’re married, um, Consent, um, uh, what’s safe and what’s not safe, you know, or it might be their only exposure to a healthy LGBTQ relationship or interracial relationship.
You know, they may have some ideas about what these things are, but then in a romance novel, you have some side characters who are in a healthy, satisfying, same sex relationship. And that might be something that no one has ever. Oh, that really happens. You know, if you, if you have stigma about certain, uh, genders or orientations, then you may have some misbeliefs there that romance novels might help to, um, assuage or get rid of.
Yeah, that’s cool. You’re right. Like there is so much opportunity there for, for influence and positive impact.
If you’re enjoying the show, I have a favor to ask you. So it turns out that 42 percent of our listeners aren’t subscribed to the show. So my goal is to get that down to 30%. Um, it really helps the show more than you can know. Um, it helps me feel encouraged and I’ll help us get even bigger, better guests on the show.
So thank you guys.
📍 📍 📍 📍 I’m also curious, like, do you still practice as a therapist or anything? Yeah. Yeah.
No, no, as, as, um, no, I love studying it. I was not good at doing it,
Yeah. Yeah.
which I think is
yeah. I’ve switched from therapy to coaching, so I, I get it a little bit. Mm
It’s a tough, tough gig. I did it for about six years and, um, it was actually my husband. We moved from the Midwest out here to the Pacific Northwest. And at the, and at the time he was like, I think this is a good time for you to maybe look at a job change. Like, this is not that you’re,
nice guy.
he, he’s quite lovely.
Um, Yes, he he’s, yeah, he has lots of things about him. They’re great. I’m sure we’ll mention I’ll mention more later. But, um, yeah, he was kind of like, I don’t think this is the job for you. Like, I’m seeing how you’re changing. And so, um, so got out of that out here in the Pacific Northwest, you know, tech is king.
And so I actually ended up what month, the last job I had as a therapist, I worked in a Yeah. Yeah. Cancer center at a hospital, and I absolutely loved that job. And so I thought, well, I’d really like to work in a hospital again in some capacity. I didn’t want to redo licensing and all that stuff in Washington.
I wanted to get away from that. So, but I, so I ended up looking for jobs in hospitals and I spent the majority of my career working at a healthcare, healthcare technology company. So I worked with hospitals in installing software into their systems. So it was. It was lovely. Yeah. And so this being a writer is actually my third career.
Oh, interesting. Okay. And this is like your full time gig now.
Yes. Yeah. This is my full time gig. So
You’ve got a lot of books behind you on the shelves. Those, those are all your books.
do. Yes. And all, and you know, my sex. Eight.
Oh, that’s pretty cool.
Yeah. Yeah. I, there’s lots of sex positive stuff to say. So when I got, I got laid off, um, in 2020 with COVID like so many people and, uh, my kids were teens and I was already kind of struggling with not helicoptering them.
And so, uh, getting a full time job just wasn’t in the cards and wasn’t really something I wanted. And my husband said, well, what do you want to do? And I said, well, I want to read romance novels all day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he said, well, you’re
Who’s still on it? And he’s probably like, I approve because she’ll probably be in the mood for it. Yeah.
Um, yeah. So he’s, yeah, he’s a smart dude. And he said, well, you know, you’re smart. You can write, you’ve read a million of these things. Why don’t you write one? And so I did. And I start, I just fell in love with the process and haven’t looked back. And he actually says, like, I’ve never seen you work harder on anything else.
Like, this is what, this is clearly what you’re supposed to be doing. So
That’s so cool. It seems like, like, your energy around it seems like very positive and very, like, enthusiastic, which is cool.
yeah. I love it. And I, I do book signings and invariably I always have people come up and tell me about their own sexual trauma, um, or their own maybe lack of enthusiasm about sex. Or I’ll get the people that say, Oh no, I’m done with that part of my life. I don’t read romance. I’m not interested in
It kind of breaks my heart a bit.
Right. Right. Yeah. That one is you. I’m like, Oh, really? Can we talk about that? You know?
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm
Right. Right. And I mean, I’m, I’m 54 and I am postmenopausal. So I understand some of the hurdles that, that women go through. And when my children were in their teens and kind of struggling with school and life, my husband and I went through a dry spell.
And, you know, my husband is a scientist. What do scientists do when they’re faced with a challenge? Research. So he actually reads just as many books by sex therapists as I do.
Wow. That’s
reading, he’ll read a book and he’ll say, you need to read this. You know, and a lot of times.
amazing.
Right. A lot of times he is the one that recommends new sex therapy books to me for me to read.
I think this is interesting. It might, you might use it in your book or something.
Okay.
It really, it really helped us, not necessarily find the spark again, but find the way to be together again. And, um, it was a lot with, I think you’ve talked about it before Emily Nagoski’s breaks and an accelerator model.
I, you know, he’s all doing all the right things for my accelerator. Yeah. Yeah. But life, kids, family, stress, depression, and anxiety were stomping on my brakes. And so until we could figure out how to let those breaks off a little bit and, you know, and that helped him to not feel like I didn’t love him, I didn’t want him, you know, no, it’s not you, babe.
It really isn’t you. It’s these other things. And so that was really helpful. So.
That’s awesome. And I think the, even just you sharing that, I hope is inspiring to people that it’s like, you can educate yourself and figure out what’s going on and get through the hurdles.
Absolutely. There are, there are solutions. And like I said earlier, I was doing some research about people having sex after 60 and, you know, and some people think, Oh, how does that even happen? And you
Come on, people. Let’s
come on people.
outdated thinking.
Right. Well, and also people have this idea that sex is penetrative intercourse, that that’s the only definition of sex.
And that’s not, uh, 📍 📍 I read a great book by Joan Price called, uh, better than I ever expected, which I highly recommend. It’s It’s a collection, it’s a collection of, of stories. And one of the stories I just fell in love with this couple. So they live in one of those retirement communities and, um, both widowers and he’s a retired landscaper, but he does some landscaping, I think, around the community.
And they have a standing date on Tuesdays and Thursdays for sex and he’ll, he calls her the night before and tells her he’s looking forward to seeing her. And she usually goes to his house. And so, um, he will make sure that the sheets are clean. 📍 He’ll have like a candle going when she gets there and kind of creates this space and mood.
Um, he will often, um, file his fingernails and his. It’s the calluses on his hands. If he’s been working, he’ll file those down because he’s, cause her skin is so right. And she’s so funny. She talks about how, like, sometimes he’ll answer the door and he’ll still be filing his nails. And she’s like, I just get so horny for him just watching him.
You know, which is awesome, you know, but they’re, you know, they’re funny because they, they, sometimes they will be able to have penetrative intercourse and other times they can’t. It’s more about cuddling skin to skin, naked with each other, touching each other and pleasurable ways. You know, men can, you know, this hopefully your reader, your watchers and listeners notice, um, men can orgasm without being hard.
Um, but. So, you know, that’s especially, particularly as men get older, so there’s lots of, there’s lots of things that, that people into their sixties can do at seventies and eighties can do to pleasure each other sexually. Um, it doesn’t, doesn’t go away.
Because it’s like we’re all getting older people, you know? Um, and I’ve had Susan Bratton on a couple times since she’s 63 and talks a lot about how she’s having the best sex of her life. 📍 📍 And um, one of my favorite sex books is Magnificent Sex by Peggy Kleinplatz. And uh,
I haven’t read that one. I’m going to read it
It’s a really good one.
Um, when I read it, I was like, this is a lot of why I became a sex therapist. Like the things that are mentioned in there about, you know, closeness and connection and what actually matters and what doesn’t. And she talks a lot about how, um, a lot of people who are happy with their sex lives started having the best sex ever at like age 55.
So the next year is going to be really good for you, Christina.
where it’s pretty good now.
Yeah. I can’t believe you.
maybe this is a, this is a funny story. I don’t care. I’m going to share it. Um, so my kids, you know, they, both my children are almost adults and adults, but they still live at home. They’re usually gone on the weekend nights. And, um, you know, my husband and I like to spend time together on Saturday night.
And one, one Saturday night, my daughter came home like an hour early and I was in the shower. She was hesitant to let us know that she was home. Cause she was like, so afraid that you and dad were going to be in there together. I was like, well, what we weren’t, I was like, would that be awful? You know, but so it’s funny.
So my kids obviously know that this happens between their father and I,
healthy because, like, as I hear you saying this, it’s making me think that, like, America is particularly squeamish. Like, the U. S. is particularly squeamish, whereas I feel like people in Europe are so much more chill and like, yeah, I mean, of course, everyone has a sex life and it’s just, I’d like us to get there as a country.
I would too. We had, when my kids were coming of age, we had this thing called Dutch rules. Cause as you know, You know, in Holland, they have some, um, behavior, they have some, um, behaviors and some beliefs in the home. They talk about sex openly. Um, it’s taught in the schools. It’s talked, talked about openly in the culture.
They respect the idea that teens, um, They want to, they get just as much pleasure out of sleeping, literally sleeping next to each other. Um, and so we didn’t, we weren’t so militant about, um, my, my kid and their partner staying in their room, you know, with the door cracked, you know, but we were like,
Mm hmm.
yeah, we think you’re too young.
For course, we, you know, that’s a, that’s a thing. Here’s why, but we’re not going to police you because we understand like sometimes just that closeness and togetherness is a great thing. So we’re not going to
So amazing and progressive. I’m so impressed by that. Yeah.
we try, but, you know, but I would.
something like that. Yeah.
Yeah, but, you know, we would call it like, you know, they would be upstairs and I’d be like Dutch rules, you know, just kind of as a reminder, like, there’s a limit to what we’re allowed, what
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. We’re giving you a little freedom. Don’t take advantage of it. Yeah.
right.
Yeah, no, what they did, I don’t know. That’s their business, not mine. Um, but we did try to inform them and prepare them and allow them safe spaces. Um, and so far it’s worked out. So,
Right. They’re still, they’re still there. So they must like you guys. All right. Um, that’s yeah, that’s really cool. I’d like to hear more about your process if you’re open to sharing because like you’ve alluded to like different research you’re doing and so I’m just curious about what kinds of things do you research and like how do you figure out what fantasies people are going to want to read about?
Right. Um, That’s a great question. So usually how I’ll read a book by a sex therapist and I’ll be like, oh, this is really interesting. And then I’ll think, well, what is a, what childhood wound might someone have that they might be that might be related to this, My background in therapy, as you know, like I’m interested in people’s wounds and how they recover from them and how those wounds impact them as adults, you know, in a variety of things.
And some research says, you know, for example, and they don’t have to be sex related, these wounds, right? Some people have maybe neglectful parents. And so as an adult, they have a sexual fantasy or sexual desire. To be someone’s, you know, all in all, you know, that might be the way, you know, they want their lover to be just upset to talk to them about how obsessed they are.
You’re the most beautiful person I’ve ever seen. I love you. Can’t wait to be inside you. You know, these kinds of things. Um, so I kind of think about what are people’s childhood wounds and how might that affect them as an adult? Um, but. Then these kind of characters just start to form and I come up with a story.
You know, I’ll think about, well, what, what kind of story do I want to write? Where do I want to write? Like for now, the book I’m working on right now is set in Hawaii. Cause Hawaii is beautiful and warm and it’s cold and rainy here.
Fair, I like
Right. Um, but the interesting thing about this couple is, um, a lot of the reading I’ve been doing about Dick’s eyes and, um, Penetrate of sex.
So a lot of some of the things that I frustrated me about other romance novels. I’m attempting to sort of do something different within this one, you know, and not to give too much away. But this hero is, um, they don’t start out right off the bat, you know, having What is And having intercourse, having penetrative sex, it’s important to him.
He’s, he says, you know, I don’t have, I don’t have penetrative sex with anyone unless I have feelings for them. Cause she’s asking him, you know, what’s your number? And he’s like, what do you mean? And she said, well, what, you know, how many people have you had sex with? And he said, well, what do you mean by sex?
And she’s like, come on, answer the question. And he says, well, my, you know, my dick has been in the pussy of three women. I, so I guess my number is three, but then he said, you know, but the number of women that I’ve given an orgasm to, or received an orgasm from is an entirely different number and one that I don’t actually know because I didn’t write it down in my diary.
You know, so he’s very, you know, so he’s very sort of like, But he’s like, I don’t have sex with women. I don’t have intercourse with women unless I have feelings for them or unless I’m in a relationship with them. But. There’s right. And that was
And I feel like men are not supposed to or allowed to say that.
You’re right. I think there are men who there’s a lot of men who certainly boys coming of age feel like they have to have all these partners and they’re supposed to in order to show their virility, um, conquest and things like that. Well, Well, I, what if I love my girlfriend and I only have had, ever had sex with her?
Am I less of a man, you know?
That’s crazy.
And I think, I just think there’s a lot more men out there who want to have meaningful relationships and want those things to be validated and held up as masculine and, um, and attractive and desirable. Right. So, right. That was intentional that I made him the one and, and she even, you know, she kind of, in that scene, she kind of loses.
And he’s like, what’s wrong, you know, and she says, well, my number’s bigger than yours. And that’s never happened to me before,
Heaven forbid.
right. know? And so that there’s that, she kind of has that moment of, you know, Oh, this isn’t. So from the bat, you know, from the get go, this couple is already
You are just
a little different.
the cultural norms all over the place. I’m like very pleased with this.
I’m trying to, I’m trying to, I mean, you know, again, romance is all about fantasy. And so, you know, my heroes, my stories don’t always follow. The fantasies, the way that, that people and readers want them to, but there’s a. Billion books out there that, that those readers can read. Uh, my books are maybe a little different, something that’s a little unique.
They have that romance vibe, you know, everything. It’s a romance that’s happily ever after. That’s the only hallmark of a romance is that it has to be happily ever after. Like Nicholas Sparks is not a romance novelist. He will tell you also. Not a romance novelist. He writes fiction with romantic elements because they die in the end.
I
That’s not a happy, that’s not a happy ending. Not a romance. So
Okay.
yeah,
know that. What’s the genres? Okay. That’s the only rule. Okay.
That is the only rule that has to have a happy ending. So it’s either like happy for now or happily ever after. Um, but it has to have a happy ending. My books, follow all those romantic principles, but I just try to put in a little, like, it’s just a little bit more information.
Like for example, my book, um, 📍 📍 your turn, she, the heroine in that one is a purity culture survivor. Um, a shame, a sexual shame
a lot of people in that category. Yeah.
It it’s really common. And I grew up in the Southeastern United States. Um, in the eighties, so I wasn’t, I was pre purity culture, but a lot of those, a lot of those things were still there.
And so, and those were things that I had to overcome, uh, the shame, um, uh, be just experiencing sexual pleasure. And wanting that in my life and seeing myself as a sexual body that was not dirty or sinful, or all of the things that, that sometimes sexual shame culture really wants to push on people. So that book was a little bit of a, a journey for me.
It, a healing journey for me in writing that character.
I didn’t even think about that. How the
I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. So, you know, my process is really trying to sort of, what are some of the issues, what are some of the sex positivity points that I’d like to make? And so then I’ll sort of envelop those into my characters and start writing a book.
And usually my books have also some other themes, like, um, for example, 📍 📍 my book, um, your hero, which is the sixth book in a, A series of interconnected standalones, so you can read them in any order, but they are kind of connected together. Um, but he is an elementary school teacher and she is an engineer at an oil refinery.
So, they both work in positions that are counter to what culture says their gender should work in. And so what does, how does that impact their sex life and how does that impact them as people? And, um, that kind of thing. So just trying to touch on some of those ideas. Um, 📍 📍 my book, you’re one, she’s a very proud out woman forward, sex positive, screw the patriarchy.
You
Okay. Yeah.
know, she’s out, out about it. Um, but she likes to submit in the bedroom. Which is super common, powerful women often like to submit in the bedroom, but she has that we’re not supposed to submit to men. So this idea that she would submit to him in the bedroom, the safe person who she cares for, it’s still in the back of her mind that it’s not okay. Um, you know, and he calls
good one. So she
he calls her good girl, which is also an issue. Like some women, they don’t like, you know, they do like to be called good girl, but then that sort of smacks of daddies and, you know, like, am I? Am I getting through my, do I have daddy issues I need to overcome?
Right. And is that part of the patriarchy? Yeah. Cause I’ll talk about good girl syndrome and stuff, but I think part of what’s great about sex is like, you just get to do whatever you want. Like all the rules can be kind of thrown out the window. Just have fun. As long as it’s consensual.
I agree with you made this statement, you know, any sex between consensual adults is healthy, good sex. And I, and I agree.
Yeah. Right. And I mean, we, and also we’re going to make mistakes and we learn as we go. Right. And I think part of it is like being educated. Right. And it’s like, you don’t know sometimes until you make a mistake. And so just allowing yourself and partners grace with that too.
Well, and along those lines, so, and then I have another book and I’m, you know, all my books, whatever. So I another book,
That’s what we’re here to talk about. Yeah.
called 📍 📍 your heart. And it’s about, it’s set at a, um, resort up here in the San Juans, uh, which is a group of islands right off the coast of Washington. Gorgeous, beautiful. So it’s set at a resort there that my family and I go to every summer and have for a decade with some, a big group of friends.
We all go, our kids grew up together doing this, you know, week vacation. Um, so I wrote a book and it kind of modeled the resort after that one. So last year we were there. I gave the owners a couple of copies of the book, right? And they. So then they put them in their library. So then this year, my 17 year old daughter and, and several of the other 15 to 18 year olds in the group were in, I walked into our cabin and they’re all sitting in a circle.
and one of them is reading the steamy scenes of my
So,
and I was like, you know, I’m going.
okay, well,
Yeah. Yeah. So that was a moment. I mean, you know, they’re, they’re supportive, but neither one of them have ever read anything and nor will they ever. And that’s fine. They don’t, they don’t need, but you know, my daughter was sort of sufficiently out, outraged with some of the language, but, um, you know, whatever she got over it.
But I took, it was a sex positive parent moment, right? So I’m like, okay, I’m in this, here we go. So I said, look, one of the things that romance novels do is help to you. Model certain behaviors, certain activities, and normalize those things for people who might be intimidated by them. Um, so it’s like, you know, so does anybody have any questions?
And there was like a couple of things that came up and, and I said, you know, for example, cunnilingus it, are any of you intimidated by cunnilingus? And one of the boys was like, I am like,
my god, this is so cute. This
hesitate, right?
is like, I’ll talk about this
cute. I was like, you’re,
go. So cute.
I, you know, so I, I say a couple of things and then I promptly go out and tell his father.
I was like, this should be something, maybe a combo is needed here,
ed with your child,
So many of us, um, don’t get good quality sex education.
Like, zero. I mean, unless they have a parent like you, like, your kids will actually have good sex education, but I 1 percent of the population.
Right. You know, when they’re getting, they’re getting their sex education from, um, porn, a lot of it’s coming from porn, which,
to be education.
well, and I say, I say to people using porn to get educated about sex is like using Star Wars to become a pilot. Like, it isn’t realistic, right? I mean, it’s not. It’s not realistic,
just conflating things entirely.
right?
It’s a, it’s a fantasy that the Millennium Falcon or those TIE fighters can even fly at all. Like, come on, they defy the laws of physics. So I, you know, people are with kids without quality sex education are turning to other sources that are not, um, helpful, you know, and someone said, you know, lack of sex education doesn’t create a lack of sex.
It creates a lack of healthy, pleasurable sex. So, you know, it’s. We need to educate people. And so some, you
female focused. Like, you know, like, and understandably, like, I did some research into this, because I was like, is porn ruining everything? And then I found some article written by a porn actress, and she was basically like, it’s not our job to educate people. Our job is to entertain, and our job is to cater to the clients who pay, two thirds of which, at least, are men.
So it makes sense, or it was even probably more than that, but I think it was like, there was twice as many blowjobs shown as like, people going down on women in mainstream porn, and, uh, and I was like, oh, so that’s why, that makes sense, but yeah, we just have to stop turning to it, looking for answers.
I mean, it serves its purpose. It has a purpose. It serves its purpose. But they, even the performers, they call themselves performers. They’re not, we’re not porn teachers. We’re porn performers. They are acting. Right. So we
I mean, I, I have clients who are sex workers and, you know, do porn or OnlyFans or whatever. And like, so I know the difference between their sex life and their work life. It’s very different.
Right. Yeah. A hundred percent. So
I think that’s great. I love your books do a little bit of both though.
That’s
Right. Right. I mean, I think, you know, especially if there’s women that are reading my books, um, and they’re getting a little bit of education and modeling how to talk, um, I, there’s, for example, in one of my books there, there’s a text, pretty sexy sex going on and You know, and instead of the hero saying, you know, what are you wearing?
It’s more like she actually texts, texts him and says, , if I, if I text you something sexy, will it be okay? And he’s like, yes. And, you know, and she says, will you show this to anybody or share it with? And he says, no, you know, he’s like, no, babe, I’m here for it.
What do you got? You know, he’s like, no, I, you know, whatever it takes for you to sext me, I will do, you know, sort of. You know, and so she’s like, you know, uh, you know what I can’t stop thinking about. And then he’s like, what? And so then she goes on to talk about, you know, the feeling of him inside her and how she can’t wait to experience that again.
And, you know, modeling some of those ways to sort of healthy, healthy ways to enter into a sext with someone because sexting is fun, but it all needs to be safe and you need, you know, needs to be. Set boundaries and consider it. And, um, all that stuff doesn’t
how well you know the person. Right. And how trustworthy are they.
right. And even, you know, even then it’s, it’s always good to maybe set up a couple of boundaries if you haven’t yet done that. So, um, you know, some people talk about, I don’t wanna ask for consent. And consent is so, you know, it takes me outta the moment, I read a book by Peggy Ornstein called boys and sex, which you may be familiar with. And she kind of interviewed men from, that’s a good one. She wrote girls in sex, which was super popular. And so then, um, as a follow up, she wrote boys and sex, but she interviewed, you know, men between 18 to 24 about their sex lives.
And there was a chapter about consent and, you know, some of it was disturbing information, but there was, One guy who said, Oh, you know, I love consent because like I ask her questions and she says, yes, I want more of that. Yes. I like that. Yes. That’s good. He’s like, I’m kind of, I kind of like reinforcement.
And so he was like,
love that way of looking at it. And I think, I love that the way you’re doing it in your books, 📍 it’s like, It’s not like, Oh, we have to have this super unsexy conversation. It’s like all part of a sexy interaction because that’s the biggest complaint I get from people. It’s like, Oh, but that kills the mood.
And I’m like, no, it does not have to kill the mood. Um, and I’ve had people kind of be like, Ooh, I really want to kiss you right now. And they wait for me to say, it’s okay. But it was like, actually very sexy the way they sort of like whispered that, you know, and I’m like, okay, I’m kind of getting my wheels spinning now, you know, so I think there’s like, absolutely sexy ways to do it.
it’s, you know, and if someone, you know, gives you that feedback, you know, you can flirt back with them. You know, that gives you an opportunity to reward them. Well, you know, where do you want to kiss me?
Oh, okay. So now I love that. So like consent turns into dirty talk. Yes, please.
You know, I mean, it doesn’t have to be. Um, it doesn’t have to be clinical, like it can be, it can be fun. So I try to model that in some of my, my romance novels as well.
Could you read us like a little excerpt?
Yeah. So she says, uh, her name is Ioni. His name is Travis. And this is in Travis’s perspective. I write, um, dual POV. So one chapter in her perspective and one chapter in his.
So this is in Travis’s perspective. So she says, can, can I tell you something sexy? And he says, I grinned and tightened the damp towel at my waist. Fuck yes. You wouldn’t ever show it to anyone else. No, my eyes only. Always. I can’t stop thinking about how good you felt inside me, Bear. Oh, I was here for this.
Me neither, babe. You were incredible. Hot and tight. I can’t wait to do it again. Same, she says. You on top this time. or holding me up against a wall. Now there was an image. My dick jumped against the heavy terry cloth and I leaned my butt against the counter. No way I was shaving with texts like this coming in. My dick is already picturing it, he says. Mmm, I went shopping in Seattle yesterday. A sexy place on Pike Street. What did you buy? He’s thinking lingerie, bondage collar, chocolate for me to lick off her nipples. My mind raced. She says, it’s for me to wear. And he says, maybe. Yes, I was on fucking pins and needles, she says, maybe for you to rip off at the wall.
I swallowed and shoved the towel off my body, my dick sprang up, and I gave myself a long stroke. I could text with one hand. So then, you know, mayhem ensued, like they continue on.
delightful conversation. Um, and I, I’m really gonna honestly keep your books in mind for clients who are looking for resources that are still going to be like sex positive and, you know, contributing positively to their sex life.
Yeah. One of one of my books, my first book, she is, um, she has severe endometriosis, which has, you know, causes really painful sex. And it’s not something we talk about. Six million women in America suffer from endometriosis, but we don’t talk about it because it’s related to our periods and our periods are dirty.
Um, but you know, she kind of has to go on this journey and, you know, To have what she unfortunately has to have a hysterectomy. And then she kind of goes on this journey to have, okay, I can’t do this thing in my life, so let me do this thing in my life and have, find out what all fuss is about, about pleasurable sex.
And, you know, she meets a guy and he thinks he’s got this whole sex thing down, but turns out she’s a little complicated. And so, you know, that relationship has to go through some conversations. And so, yeah. So I really hope that people can, I hope that maybe people that read my books, if there’s women who suffer from, from endometriosis might read that book and then share it with their partner and say, like, can we talk about this or, you know, or make it a studies or women have reported that, that, um, having sex from behind, if you have endometriosis, having sex from behind is a more comfortable position, but that’s a taboo position.
Right. And so if maybe one of those women. It shouldn’t be, but it is, you know, and so, you know, I’m, I’m hopeful. Yeah. That people will read my books in that situation and maybe think, oh, well, maybe let me try this. Maybe it’s not so taboo. So
love that. Well, this is, I think this is great that you’re like having a great time helping other people have a great time and sneaking in like lots of awesome sex positivity and education too and challenging like the culture. So,
I hope so. Yeah. That’s what I love. I love it. So I’m going to do it forever. I think.
I’m excited for you. Um, so where can people find you in your books, especially?
Yes. Um, well, the, the best place to, to find me is my, 📍 on my website at Christina braver dot com. Um, I have a resources tab, which has a list of all the books from sex there. My favorite books from sex therapists and other topics that I’ve researched. So that’s a great resource. Um, and then you can find my books on Amazon and, uh, you can follow me on Instagram at Christina braver romance and also on Facebook at Christina braver romance.
So
I did look up your books. They have very good reviews. So if you’re
Thank you. Yes. I’ve been lucky. Yes. And I’ve just started writing on medium. So you can find me there at, at, at Christina Burr. And that’s where I’m writing a lot of my articles. Um, you know, I’m getting ready to publish the one on dick size and how, um, that might not be all it’s all people think it is.
And I have some articles about how romance novels, reading romance novels can make your sex life better and different things like that. So find me on medium as well.
Okay. All right. Cool. Well, yeah, we’ll, we’ll link to all of, uh, those things in our show notes for the episode. Uh, but thank you so much for being here, 📍 Christina, this was really a treat and thank you everyone for listening. We will catch you next week on Ask the Sex Therapist.
📍 Hey, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to the show. We are very happy to have you here. If you are a new listener, you are very, very welcome. Um, if you guys ever need to reach out to me, you can do that through my website, heathershannon. co. Again, that’s heathershannon. co. And don’t forget to follow the show.
It’s such a small thing. It takes a second. It’s free. And it helps the show so much. So if you want more people to get this kind of, uh, Honest and uncensored sex education and relationship advice. Follow it. Share it with a friend. If you’re on YouTube, subscribe, hit the notification bell, and we will catch you next time, everybody.