This is the ask a sex therapist podcast, helping you change the way you look at sex. I’m Heather Shannon. And in a world full of sexual censorship, I’ll give you the raw truth about pleasure, intimacy in your relationships and enjoying your body. Because it’s time for you to ask a sex therapist. Hello everybody.

And welcome to this very exciting episode. Uh, we’re going to talk about adventures in sex. That’s what that even means. And we’re also going to talk about how you can become your own sex expert. I have a very fun and special guest today. So let me introduce her. So Dr. Heidi Anderson Sauter, uh, has her PhD in clinical psychology and is a certified Gottman method therapist and teaches some of the Gottman courses to other therapists, by the way.

She’s also an ACEx certified sex therapist. She owns a group therapy practice in Colorado called the Enriched Relationship Center that focuses on how to help people have better relationships. Heidi and Hannah Cook Aragone recently wrote a book, Adventures in Sex, that makes people the experts on their own.

sex lives. So welcome, Heidi. It’s very exciting to have you here. Heather. It’s great to see you. I have to explain to people how we know each other. So Heidi was my roommate back in the day when we were both becoming sex therapists. And like, look at us now, right? You’re a published author on, I have a podcast and you know, it’s pretty exciting.

And my favorite moment of us rooming was us like. Making pancakes at night and you were throwing chips into my pancakes. And so I think it’s important that everyone knows of our special bond with midnight pancakes.

It’s a great bond, Heather. Uh, you recognize the shirt I’m wearing?

Cause I was too busy with the tech set up.

So I, when I did my photo shoot years ago, um, I had these custom shirts made and they say sex nerd on them. So if anyone’s just listening to the audio and not watching on YouTube, I did send one to Heidi and she is wearing it now.

I love it.

We’re both sex nerds here to celebrate being sex nerds. And if you’re listening, you’re probably a sex nerd too.

So I’m excited for you to be part of this, but yeah, like kind of amazing. You wrote a book, so let’s just put that out there. What inspired this?

So I make a living by helping people have conversations they wish they could have instead of the fights they get into.

Oh, yeah.

And oftentimes, the conversations that they want to have are conversations around sex and sexuality.

Mm hmm.

Um, either just their own person, who they are, or what they want to be doing with their partner or partners. And so, as I just did more and more of this work after the University of Michigan, where I met you. I realized that one of the, uh, toughest parts for people was really being able to find a way to introduce topics of sexuality around, uh, right.

A broad range of topics where people could just kind of have like a, a window into. themselves or their partners. And so I was chatting and I posted a Gottman consultation group for people who do couples therapy or marital therapy or relationship therapy. And Hannah is in that group and said, uh, Hey, I’d like to help you out on that book because I said, Hey, I think I should write a journal.

It would help people kind of find an accessible way. They wouldn’t have to pay a therapist, and they could get to know themselves, and then they could share that with anyone else they wanted, or no one else if they wanted. They could just have that information for themselves. And so Hannah and I originally wrote a book that was really Uh, we’re what you would probably expect from somebody with a PhD.

It was boring. And then we went up to her parents place in Breckenridge and we threw that away. We just deleted it. Started anew. Which is

brave because like it’s hard to put yourself out there and create that. So I, I respect that, that you’re like, no, this is not what I want to put out into the world.

Let’s do better. No.

Nope. So we said, uh, how can people get to know themselves and how can they share something with a partner or partners if they choose to do so? And so we scrapped our first idea. And the second idea is what is now the, what I call the sex journal, but it’s adventures in sex. It’s kind of what I say.

I went to sex school, which is the university of Michigan.

Yeah. Heidi would always be like, all right, I just telling my kids, I’m going to sex school for the weekend. Okay. So the sex journal, um, but actually adventures in sex. So I love that idea though, of making it not boring and helping people. Get to know themselves and like you said, have the conversations because I mean, we’re not normal to say that sometimes I forget that like, I’m not normal.

And I’m like, Oh, you just say it. You just say what you want, you know, but you know, the truth is that fear of rejection comes up. Um, you know, people get self conscious. They don’t know how to bring it up. And so I love that. You’re giving them a tool where they’re still doing it themselves, but maybe it makes it a little easier.

Maybe it makes their brain not to have to work so hard to figure out how to bring something up. I

think that’s a huge chunk of it. I also think another huge chunk of it is just that nobody’s normal. And so really, when you’re reading like the headlines as you’re going through the checkout counter at the grocery store, they’re saying, here’s how to do it.

Right. And so people I fear most often try to fit themselves in their own sexual preferences, their own bodies, their own ideas into what they think is like acceptable or wanted. Mm-hmm . Or appropriate. Mm-hmm . Instead of really first and foremost saying, who am I? What do I want?

I love that. Like it ha, I feel like it has to start there.

Mm-hmm .

Okay. So how do you do that with people in the book? Like how do you help them? Get to know their sexual selves better and, like, become more comfortable with who they are.

Heather, like, with a lot of sex and sex therapy, it’s really at the beginning a little bit of, uh, permission seeking. What do they need in order to get curious about themselves?

What do they need in order to be able to share? So there’s a little preamble on that, but then it’s just really a variety of questions on who they are. So you want me to just randomly pick? Yeah, pick a few. Give us some, give

us some examples.

All right. How have my family’s values of sex shaped me?

Oh, that’s important.

That’s really important because sometimes we don’t even realize that like My experience from 30 years ago, you know, growing up with my parents is still affecting who I am now is like a 42 year old.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Love that. Yep. So history. What is my history of it? Okay. So here’s another one. If I could only be kissed on one place on my body, it would be and describe the sensation.

Oh, that’s a hard one.

Okay. And I love these so far because it’s like, you can totally do it by yourself, but it can also very much be a tool for having some of these conversations with your partner that. You might not think to have, or you might not know how to have.

Right. I mean, oftentimes if you, if we lined up, let’s say there are like 100 people in New York City and said, tell me about kissing.

They’d say something to do with like lip on lip.

Right.

Yeah. Where this question says like, right, we’re on your body, not just your lips. I like

that because it’s like a pattern disruptor. You know, you kind of were like, Hey people, I’m onto you. I’m onto this default thinking, and we’re not going to have too much of that here.

Okay, and I can see that already being one way in which you’re making it not boring. How else did you kind of go from like, As you said, like, okay, boring stuff that you’d expect from like a PhD to like actually something that’s kind of engaging and fun for people to do.

I was really just like brainstorming where Heather and I are very just kind of accepting of who each other are as people and ourselves.

And so like, no question was weird or off topic. It was just, we just sat down and said, okay, like, what are some questions that. Right. Or we’d want to know about ourselves and somebody that we’re with. And so it was really just some brainstorming sessions.

That’s awesome. And so have you, like, have you started using this with clients yet?

So I’ve started using it with a few of my clients.

Okay.

It just came out and I haven’t advertised it to my clients just because I try to be an ethical psychologist. Oh, this is so fun. It’s like

brand new.

Yep. Brand new. But some of my clients found it and have brought it in. That’s awesome. And the feedback I’ve gotten is that it really is approachable.

That’s so important. And I love that. I’m like all about that.

And I think part of that in large part of that, frankly, is the illustrator we used, Andy Patton, who, um, is just, he, I mean, he’s a professional guy, but, uh, we just said, make it something that people would want to pick up and use, not like a textbook kind of thing.

And so I think kind of the fun of it kind of transfers through the book, just through his creations.

That’s cool. And I have to say like that came across. Just from the cover too, like it looks like a fun book, you know, and it doesn’t look like serious or stuffy. It’s kind of like, all right, cool, like let’s be a little playful and like get into this.

It’s kind of how it comes across.

Yes. And so we know some people are writers. They like to journal. They like that. But we also know some people like to draw or cut things out of magazines or write, create in different kinds of ways. And so in the book on the pages, there are lines where you can write, but there are also spaces where you can create other kinds of artistic depictions.

Oh, that’s kind of cool. I like that. Yeah. So we’re, we’re appealing to all different types of learners here. My mom is a teacher, so I feel like I’m very aware of needing to appeal to different learning styles. I like writing and journaling. I think that’s just such an amazing way to get clarity. And so I guess I want to encourage people, even if you’re someone that’s like, I don’t want to write about this shit, you know, that like, Maybe just push yourself a little bit, or maybe just be like open to the idea that it might not be torturous.

And especially if it’s for yourself, it’s like, you don’t have to like have great penmanship. Like you don’t need to have like, you know, perfect answers, you know, or like great grammar. It’s like, just jot

something down, you know? Right. And I think Heather, as people, we really are the creators of our own stories.

Now are we influenced by a lot of things? Of course we are. But I think if, like, if I’m given permission to really think about what I want and really given permission to ask for what I want, that is a completely different recipe than trying to fit into the box of whatever I think people want from me. Or whatever I’m supposed to do.

Yeah. Now you’re getting into some like deeper layers of stuff that I like. It’s, it’s like really finding authenticity, you know, where, yeah, it’s not the should, it’s not the supposed to, it’s not someone else’s expectation. It’s just like, and that’s what I love. You know, having a workbook or a journal like it really can be about just the relationship with yourself and maybe you don’t even have to share with anyone what you’re being honest with yourself about.

But just to start with that is huge,

right? Part of the. Uh, presentation of the book through Andy’s work is really to try to say as you’re becoming a sexual person,

which

really starts when you pop out of the womb,

but then

especially, uh, as you kind of continue in adolescence and into young adulthood, it’s really a time to be able to say, who am I, Now, some of the questions are not going to be appropriate for that.

One of the questions is, what is your favorite sexual experience?

Uh,

one of them was your funniest.

Oh, interesting.

Hmm. It’s super funny. Like what, what people say is super funny. So some of them aren’t for people who have not become sexually active yet, but many are just being able to say, who are you?

I know you have kids obviously, and I’m trying to remember how old they are now, but I’m thinking you have one in college and one in high school.

Yes. Okay. So like, do you feel like some or most of this book is appropriate for like teenagers maybe? Uh,

absolutely. And so my youngest who’s still in high school, yes, absolutely. In college I got, I can’t really remember how many calls this last year. My daughter’s a freshman,

I’m in

California and she would call and say, mom, so and so my roommate, uh, is having this thing or.

This friend is going through this. And so I’m like, wow, these kids need to pick up some, right. So I refer to Emily Nagoski’s come as you are all the time for Lauren and her friends. Yeah. And then just a journalist say, right, instead of trying to do what you think your sexual partner wants you to do, how about try to get to know what you’re interested in.

And then, right, communicate that, right. So it’s super appropriate for people who are starting into their sexual lives.

I love that for, I know, and you’ve, your daughters have always felt so comfortable with you. Like I remember when I stayed at your house for that weekend, when we saw Emily Nagoski in person, um, which was fun, by the way, everyone should check out that book too, but yeah, just like how comfortable they are because of the work you do and because of your comfort level and openness and talking about it.

And it’s so cool to hear that. You know, Lauren’s friends are now like going through her to like get answers from you. But like, what a gift. Like I’m thinking back to when I was in college and I remember Yeah, just being, like, almost more scared of sex or, you know, worried about everything, not really even seeing that there’s actually health benefits and this can be, like, connective and, you know, you can have a secure feeling emotionally.

But I do remember One friend brought up vibrators or masturbating in like a group setting of women. I was like, Oh my God, you can talk about this publicly. Like this is like other people talk about this, you know, cause sometimes I think there’s just such like shame or fear or whatever that like really keeps it inside.

So I just, I love hearing. Especially younger people who, you know, are adults now, but like young adults and still figuring some of the things out to be able to talk about that and have like an actual resource written by a certified sex therapist is really kind of amazing. Like, I feel like we should get this all over campuses, you know, sexual

education should be all over campuses.

It should, it should. That’s actually really cool. And so I’m, I’m thinking like some parents listening will be like, Oh yes, I need all the tools I can get for having some of these uncomfortable conversations with my children. But yeah, I mean, it sounds like it’s also great for adults. It’s great for single people.

It’s great for people on marriages. My other curiosity would be, and obviously you wanted to make this approachable, but like, what have you seen with your clients that made you feel like, you know, this is something that’s needed. This is something we’re missing a little bit.

One of the things that I’ve seen with my clients is that they’re very hesitant to really explore who they are because they fear that it’s not going to be accepted.

So they don’t even start there. They’re just like, what does my partner want? And can I do that?

Interesting.

So you kind of cut off like a good amount of what’s possible just out of the gate.

You’re so right. It’s, it’s like a reverse order of things. It’s almost like, okay, we’re coming at it from this angle of like, what does my partner want?

How can I be that versus like, what do I want? How can I communicate that?

Right. So in doing Gottman method therapy, they’re always like the two, right? Depending on how many people, three or four, depending on how many partners are in the room. Independent, but equally valid perspectives. And so in doing work with people, uh, we’ll look and say, okay, when it comes to

foreplay,

what is your ideal scenario?

Is there a deeper purpose or goal in foreplay for you? How does this relate to your past or background in some way? What feelings do you have about foreplay? And so for each person, we’re going through all those lists of questions. And so in doing therapy, it kind of naturally lends itself to looking for the two independent voices if there’s a couple in the room.

So oftentimes I found that people would sit there and kind of say, I don’t know, I guess I’ve never thought about, is there a deeper purpose or goal in foreplay for me?

Yeah. Right. I thought. And why would they? Like what in our culture encourages that? Nothing. Except for us. Me and Heidi. We’re encouraging it.

We are. Because it is. It’s important. And I mean, so my other question is, so let’s say, let’s say you have a couple, right? And they both kind of start going through adventures in sex and they’re filling some stuff out and they’re like, Oh, I’m asking myself some new thoughtful questions. And. And so then they do have two different perspectives.

Like, how do you encourage people to come together and talk about their perspectives when they might be afraid that they’re different or that they can’t find the middle ground? And they might actually be

pretty different too. Oftentimes, I think that having a partner who’s very different from you is really the ideal.

But that’s so interesting. Say more.

Heather, if you’re a lot like me, I’m going to get bored with you pretty quick.

Okay.

Now, if you’re different from me, are we going to tussle? And are we going to, I mean, it’s like your food preferences and my food preferences in Michigan, right? Those were different. Right.

And so, right, we tried some, I tried different restaurants and I tried different food and right. I mean, we stayed at some different places,

which

I thought, okay, that’s an experience I wouldn’t have had.

I love this perspective so much.

So if you’re a lot like me, um, I’m only going to have like a very small range of experience in life.

Mm hmm.

If I pair with you or other people who are quite different than I am, it is harder. Because it requires more collaboration.

Yeah.

Like, let’s say I’m, uh, I’m a morning person and I pair with somebody who’s a night person. Okay. Um, that’s not a gimme. It means each of us are going to say, okay, what about the morning makes you more into sex?

What about the night makes you kind of more desirous. So we are working then together to say, what are your preferences and what makes that true? And how can I flex with you? It’s kind of like doing couples yoga.

That makes some sense. I mean, yeah, it’s. And the way, I love that you’re kind of presenting it with these non sexual examples because I think it’s really interesting to notice how the mind feels when it’s just like a food preference or an Airbnb preference or like a activity preference or time of day preference.

It’s like, Oh, okay. Yeah, that’s normal. That’s garden variety. We can work with that. But when it’s sex, and I mean, I think my mind is guilty of this too. Sometimes it’s like, Oh, Oh no, what if we’re not compatible enough? And like, can we make this work? I think it can just feel more threatening. So I love this idea of what you’re saying.

It’s like, yeah, maybe you have a partner where like you have one hobby in common and three different hobbies. Well, like, yeah, maybe you find one more hobby that you like and you agree to have some separate stuff and you get a little out of your comfort zone and you both grow as people. And you know, it’s like the same can be said for sex.

So I love that perspective.

Heather, I mean, like, you know, uh, sex really does grow on novelty, risk taking. Cute.

Yes, absolutely.

So we need people who are different than us. We need people who say Especially in the long

run.

Yes.

Right. Like you might have a great time for like a few months, you know, if you’re like, cool, we like all the same things and then it might be like, okay, now we’re like 20 years in.

And we’ve been doing all of those same things. And we’re both like really freaking bored. And then in those cases, you have to get out of your comfort zone anyways, except it might be a little tougher because you’re in the same rut together.

Right. Uh, one of the things that I liked about reading Barry McCarthy’s work and I don’t know if this is his idea or work or something I read in his work,

but

the idea that all sex transitions after limerence.

So if you’re lucky enough, right, that falling in love stage 6 months, maybe to 2 years, if you can stretch that out,

all

sex lives transition into a new sex life. I think the same is true following the birth of a baby or becoming parents, adopting or, uh, in some other way, parenting, um, you do not have the same sex life.

So if you were trying to get comfortable in something and trying to think that, right, Oh, we’ve got this down and it’s good. And it’s going to be like this forever. I think it’s really hard and disappointing. And I don’t think people set themselves up with the right expectations. Could not agree more.

I mean, so the first sex book I read.

Was, um, by Marty Klein, sexual intelligence. And he says kind of the same thing. He basically says, like, you need to kind of reevaluate every so often to see, like, what works for us now, you know, it’s like bodies change, health status change, energy levels change. Psychologically, we change and you know, maybe what we’re into or what’s a turn on that decade is different than it was the prior decade, you know, I think a lot of people struggle with this where they kind of get into the idea that, you know, sex should just, it should just be natural, like the chemistry should just be there and, you know, we shouldn’t have to work at it.

Like that’s like a bad sign, you know, or it was easy in a previous relationship. And it’s like, well, Either there was a lot of like rollercoaster stuff going on in that previous relationship that like really wasn’t healthy, you know, or you just need to adjust. So I think what you’re saying is really important and I agree.

It’s like, limerence is pretty short term. And so once you get past that. You do need to make an active effort, even really before that, I think it’s probably just a practice to get into, but you know, the people that I know who still have that spark after 10, 20, 30, almost 40 years, you know, it’s like they prioritize it.

They flirt with each other. They’re comfortable talking about sex. You know, it’s like, it’s not an accident. So I love the idea of people being intentional. And I do think. Adventures in sex is one way that people could be intentional because we need, I do think we need tools and resources outside of ourselves.

I mean, like, you know, you and I are frigging sex therapists. It’s like, do we think that we would have like a great sex life forever without seeking out tools and resources? I don’t.

No, absolutely not. Right. As a sex therapist, I anticipate my own sex life will have its own dips. Absolutely. Deserts and like sort of monsoons.

I mean, it’s a very changing landscape.

Totally. And so I think when you go in with that expectation, instead of it should just be easy, we shouldn’t have to put an effort in there, then it can be fun. Then it can be like, Ooh, well there’s sex toys and there’s this, you know, adventures in sex book and there’s yes, no, maybe lists.

And you know, there’s all these places where we can get ideas and inspiration and tap into our own creativity. Um, and a lot of that comes from having the conversations with your partner. You know?

Right. Yeah. I think one of the fascinating things in being a psychologist is that no, uh, two people’s stories are the same.

And

when I’m honored enough to see couples across time, they’ll 10 years later, even, uh, given some situations, uh, their story is not the same 10 years later.

Oh, cool. So even if

I’m like, Oh, I remember them like, Oh, I’m excited to see them. Yeah. The story where they’re at. I’m like, Oh, this totally new and different.

That’s true. So, okay. So that’s a huge takeaway. Like what else do you hope people take away from this? You know, if they’re like, okay, cool, I’m going to try this Avengers and sex, let’s see what we can learn. What is your hope for people?

My hope for people is that they allow themselves to dream

and that

they really do see their sexual lives as a part of their own self expression and not have the kind of, not have the kind of experience I had, uh, in undergrad, I took a watercolor class painting.

I’m thinking, Oh, it’s kind of fun. Right. The instructor came by and was like, uh, what’s your major. And it might’ve been like. I don’t know, mathematics or something at the time. And he was just like, good. And he never came back.

What a dick.

So I was like, I guess I’m not good at this. And so, sex I think can sometimes be one of those things that people try to perform at.

Yeah.

Versus really just say like, Oh, I kind of feel like doing this and this might be kind of fun or pleasurable.

Yeah. So hearing you say that, it also makes me realize like people need to sort of create the conditions. And I think like you said, the giving permission at the beginning of the book will help people with themselves.

What about if they’re talking to a partner? Like is there. Do you have any thoughts on like how they kind of create the conditions for that conversation to go well and to be like a nonjudgmental

zone? I think part of it is in using the journal, if each person has their own journal. Right. And they’re describing their own answer to a question.

They are not judging their partner. They’re just saying, here’s me. And so they’re really coming from that part of just saying in a vulnerable way. Yeah. Um, here’s a little bit of who I am or what I’m thinking about or what I find interesting or what I may think is kind of cool, but never actually want to do.

Yeah. Here’s a little bit of that.

I like those because then you’re also like mental, not just the physical part.

And I think that can come across better than saying, I think we should do something different or I don’t like that we did that in bed

or I don’t

like, you’re just saying, Hey, when I’m thinking about being a little bit more creative in bed, I’m thinking I might like to try this.

Or one of the things. Right. Even if we just take the one I randomly picked, like, if I had one place to be kissed on my body, where would that be? It would definitely not be my lips. Right. It would definitely be like somewhere around like my navel.

Interesting.

Yeah. So that, I mean, if my partner’s going to find that weird and odd, then sure, they might have some feelings come up and they’re saying, okay, I have some feelings come up, or that might make me feel uncomfortable because I have a little bit of body image with my own right abdomen following having a kid and it doesn’t look like it used to.

Okay. So, wow. If you want to kiss me on my navel, like, uh, we’re. You’re right. I don’t want to do that. But then if I just look at them and say, well, you don’t have to want to be kissed on your navel. Like if you had one place on your body, where would that be?

Right. And it

might be their earlobe.

It’s

true.

Right. Who knows? Right. Might be their pinky finger. I

mean,

it could be, right. Lots of people say like they’re right in the soft part of the arm. Yes. It’s

like very. Yes, I think that’s underexplored erogenous zone potentially. Yeah. So I love that. I’ve even just like, Hey, we’re going to do this workbook together and we’re just going to kind of agree to be like curious and open.

And if there’s something that you say that I’m not into or vice versa, like, cool, we’ll just continue to be curious and try to understand each other and then we’ll decide what we actually do want to implement and put into practice.

You know, I think your question is a great one. It is triggering to talk about sex and sexuality.

It can be. It can also be really hot.

It can be totally hot, right? Thinking about sex, people makes people more interested in having sex 100 percent do not forget this

people.

Right. So even just like keeping your own journal for like three, four, five, six, seven, eight days can actually be like, okay, I’m a little more receptive to my husband coming on to me even though I’m like sort of overwhelmed right now.

Yeah, like I, because I do think, especially as sex therapists, you know, we’re used to helping people who are uncomfortable, but I kind of want to let people know, even if you feel a little uncomfortable to start, sometimes it can be like, Ooh, I’m overcoming the taboo, overcoming the taboo of talking about sex.

And like, look at me just like putting it all out there. That can be a turn on. Or it could be like the specific talking about the different sex acts that could be a turn on like, Oh my God, you want to do that? Like, okay. Okay. Yeah, that is kind of hot. Like finding out new things that you are into. So I actually think some of this can be like fantastic mental foreplay.

Heather, it’s so funny you say that. Um, this last weekend, uh, my little high school kid was starting to do some of her homework for School. She started school in a few days.

And

so she said, she came up, she’s like, mom, I’m feeling so aesthetic. I have like my markers and I’m highlighting my book and I’m like getting things done.

And I’m thinking, Oh my gosh. Right. That’s super cool. But I’m thinking about that now because I’m thinking part of the sex journal could be that you could get just your own aesthetic on, even if you never plan to share it with another person on the planet, you can get your own sexual kind of aesthetic.

I mean, it’s all, it’s fresh flowers. Okay. You could be in a tub. You could have some candles and you could just like be cruising around thinking about these questions. I love that.

And I mean, so many people have more of like a responsive desire where it’s like the arousal doesn’t come out of nowhere. You need some kind of sexual stimuli and not everyone’s into, you know, porn or a visual.

And so I love the idea that this workbook could even be that this could be sort of a sexual stimuli to kind of get the mental juices flowing and potentially the physical ones,

right? When you’re self pleasuring might, might be nice to have a nice little, some ideas or be thinking through or fantasizing through some things.

100%. Yeah. I mean, I think I get lazy. Who? I don’t know. It reminds me of what song is that? There’s a lyric in a song where it goes, when masturbation’s lost, it’s fun. And I’m sometimes I think about that. And I’m just if anyone remembers, I feel like it’s Weezer or Green Day or I think it’s Green Day. But yeah, I’m like, who doesn’t get into a rut with their own self pleasure or solo sex?

You know, it’s like, we all kind of have our go to but it’s like, Um, what would it look like to get a little bit out of your comfort zone? Not drastically, like I still want you to have a good time, but like incorporate one new aspect. What would that look like? So anyways, give us a little more detail from your book.

Can you share more stuff? Um, give us the good stuff, all the juicy stuff, Heidi.

So I read the back. Okay. So Heather, before I forget, right at the very back, so I’ll get you some more juicy stuff, but at the very back, there are also some questions, uh, to help people transition. Um, There are questions like, what is something you were curious about that wasn’t asked?

Oh, so here, I’ll just show you what it looks like. This is like the basic format. And so it kind of just says, uh, what actions do you need to take to kind of further your journey? Um, so it’s those things. Um, but there are questions, uh, what are your values about porn? Okay, that’s good. Values are important.

Yeah.

How do alcohol or drugs affect me sexually? There is, what is your favorite sensual music? Ooh, I like that. I

feel like music is like an underutilized tool with sex.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Although it’s used in the movies a lot.

Totally used in the movies, but yeah, I feel like, I feel like the sounds, I actually did a, I did a presentation once on the sounds of sex.

And so I think obviously music can be part of that, but for me, listening to certain songs will definitely put me in the mood. Well, other songs will make me sad or make me joyful. And, but, you know, so like maybe notice what are the songs that put you in a sexy mood.

It’s great. It’s funny to think of being younger and going clubbing, uh, you did definitely did not play slow music.

No.

No. No.

I’m remembering my college days. Yes.

Yes. So you’re kind of playing, paying attention to your context. What after play or after sex scenarios do you find the most satisfying? Hmm.

Give me an example of that. What would be like an after play

scenario? So lots of times, uh, when people think about sex, they think of vaginal penile, right?

Penetration. One or both people orgasm and then people roll over and go to sleep. This forces people to say there is no after sex after play.

Okay.

And how satisfying is that? Now the feeling of orgasm or just the feeling of being in a pleasurable sexual activity can feel satisfying in and of itself.

For sure.

So there’s no, nothing to say that you should have something.

Mm hmm.

But then oftentimes if people kind of think, I don’t know, what is the most satisfying? If I lie there, uh, spooning my partner, I like that. I like just sort of feeling the sweat, right, on their neck. Um, or I like the feeling of being just sort of lying in my partner’s arm and I can feel like myself sort of breathe hard.

Or, an after sex piece of, uh, my partner will get up and get me a nice cold washcloth.

Oh, that’s nice.

Uh, sometimes, uh, people will say, I like that after sex I can just kind of lie there and cry. It’s just kind of a release of just the tension I’ve carried for the day or the week. For sure. It

can be.

And my partner is just like, will hold my hand or just rest their hand on my right breast or my belly.

Hmm.

So just like many, many things like that. And sometimes people say it depends on what kind of sex we had. If we had the fucking around kind of sex, or like a quickie kind of sex, the after stuff can be just kind of laughing.

Okay, I like that.

If we had just one of the, just like, I felt my, just like body and soul connect with this person, we just like sat in silence for 20 minutes and it was just like, let it kind of reverberate.

This is great. You describe it in, like, such a sensory way that it’s feel like it, like, transports me. Is the, is the book like that?

The book really taps into any person’s imagination.

Okay. I don’t know. It sounded pretty good. And some of the stuff you said, it’s like, I do this for a freaking living. And I feel like this would like challenge my brain too.

And like, get me, get me thinking. So it sounds like, you know, even if someone like feels like I’m so creative or I, whatever, it sounds like they would still get something out of it.

Um, I really do think sex is. It’s one of the most difficult things people talk about because it has so many meanings. It’s very self expressive.

It’s part my personality. It’s part my interests. It’s part my creativity. It’s part like how risky do I get? It’s partly how safe do I feel with you? It’s partly how safe do I feel with myself? I mean, there’s so many, it’s power and control. Yeah. Vulnerability. Um, it’s being to let, let go and let loose.

It’s being able to expose myself. I mean, there’s so many pieces to it.

You’re right. And so sometimes people make the argument, you know, Oh, sex is superficial. I don’t think anyone listening to this feels like that hopefully, but like that it’s superficial or like, Oh, we sense. You know, such a small part of our life in terms of our time spent, but I think what you’re saying is really important and why we have jobs is because it’s not, it’s really core to people’s identity and sense of self and so many aspects of who we are and how we relate.

It really is.

Um, it’s part of how we bond with people who we’re more intimately connected with.

It’s part of

just how we have fun for people who we are just, um, hooking up with. I think it’s just part of just a lot of different parts of life and it just looks really different across time. Like, even if you go through this journal, Heather, I’ll be interested to just like chat with you and see what you think.

Um, just if you answered these questions when you were 20, even 25, 30, right now I’m in my fifties, even at 40, I’d see drastically different things.

I bet that would be interesting to kind of read almost like a, like a before and after like tracking your journey a little bit. It’s kind of an interesting idea too.

Okay. So let’s share the most juicy piece of the journal. We’ll wrap up on that and then we’re going to tell people where they can buy the book and find you.

So I think the best question out of the book is what is your funniest sexual experience? Really? And why do you love that one the most? Because no one ever has the same story.

I walked into a store that I really like in Littleton, Colorado. They help women who are getting back into the workforce. So they train women back into the workforce. So I like their concept. They give part of your, um, It’s called Angel Concepts. They give part of your purchase to a charity.

So,

really like them.

Uh, I walked in there when I did not have the, the real books out yet. I just had the author copy just to see if they want to carry it in their store. And, um, I said, I just published a sex journal and write if you want to carry it. And she said, well, um, I don’t have sex anymore. And I said, well, that’s okay.

Because one of the questions in there is what’s your favorite sexual experience? You’re what’s your funniest. And she said, I remember when I was, uh, when I got pulled over by the cops on the way to the airport. Right. A trench coat and nothing else, but the whole store, this, this, this lady was like, she’s a great woman.

She said else’s and everybody in search is like laughing and carrying on. And so, I mean, it’s, it was really funny to kind of,

I don’t have sex anymore and then she’s got that story. Yeah. You just never know. Never know.

And if you don’t have a funny story, I think maybe even that sort of prompts you to say, okay, maybe it doesn’t need to be all that serious.

I think that’s huge. And I actually, I love that that is your favorite question in the book, because I do think we just take ourselves too seriously. And there’s this idea that we’re supposed to be like, so sexy and like suave or like seductive or whatever. And I’m like, what if we just embrace like the awkwardness a little bit more, because we’re all actually a little bit awkward.

And I think if we can embrace that we can actually have sexier sex, if that makes sense.

Yes. And if you kind of think of adults being people who still enjoy playing, there’s like a role in sex for that, I think. Yeah.

Yeah. You can be creative or have your alter ego or whatever you want to do. So, all right.

So tell people where can they buy Adventures in Sex and where can they find you?

So people can buy Adventures in Sex on Amazon.

Okay. And so you can just write in show notes.

Yep. Uh, Adventures in Sex, or you can just like, uh, Type my name in there and it will come up.

Okay, Heidi Sauter or Heidi Anderson Sauter.

Either one. Yeah, either one. Okay, great And then pretty easy to remember they’ll remember it

adventures in sex

Yeah. Well, I’m very excited to buy my copy. I have been banned, unfortunately, from leaving reviews on Amazon. So you guys, since I can’t leave Heidi a review, please leave her a review of the book.

It means so much to creators. I have no idea why I was banned, by the way. I don’t think I did anything bad, but they won’t tell me and they won’t. fix it. So it makes me feel kind of mischievous though. So at least I’m getting that out of it. So, and then I’m assuming your book will be like on Goodreads.

They can maybe leave you a review on, I’ll leave you a review on Goodreads since I can’t do it. Okay, cool. Okay, cool. So check out Heidi’s book on Amazon and then anywhere else that they can like find you. Do you want people going to your website or just like, no, go buy the book?

No. So absolutely. You can find me at enrichcenter.

org. That is my group practice enrich, uh, center. org and you can find me on there. I offer workshops. So one of the workshops I’m doing off of this book is with a financial planner, Alexa Bracetta here. So we’re doing workshops called more bang for your buck. Uh huh.

I love a good sexual ponder and you end up, uh huh. Her

husband came up with that, Alexa’s husband. So, uh, and so, yep. So we’re doing alternative date nights, they’re free and we’re just opening up a few of the questions from the adventures in sex and Alexa is doing some like really accessible questions about money.

Which is the other most difficult topic to talk about. Yes.

Okay. Yes. So the same concept of just being able to say, how can couples or partners of, uh, whatever types and, and configurations really start talking about important things. And so Alexa and I are doing one of those in September, so you can find things like that on my website.

Cool. Kind of like workshops. Okay. And

you’re licensed in like, or you can practice in a bunch of States, right? Cause you’re part of that compact thing. So I don’t know how many, like 10 States or something like that.

There’s a lot of in, uh, in psych pack. Yes. So a bunch of different states, uh, I can practice interjurisdictionally.

And so, yes, definitely. If somebody is looking for a sex therapist, um, yeah, I see people, uh, for sex therapy.

Nice. Okay. Well, so we’ll link to Heidi’s website and to the book. And I really think you guys should all take advantage of those free workshop date night things. I mean, it’s hard. I just feel like life is hard enough.

Like let’s take advantage of the resources that we have, especially when they’re free and led by very amazing people like Heidi. So thank you very much for being here, Heidi. And, uh, thanks everyone for listening. We’ll catch you next time.

If you are loving the show and you don’t want to miss another one, make sure you hit. Follow at the top of the screen from the show page and if you’re on an episode page just go to the little three dot menu, select go to show, and then hit follow at the top of your screen. This helps us show up on the Apple sexuality charts, it helps more people find this show and it helps spread the message of sexuality.

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