📍 So we’re going to be talking about porn addiction, sex addiction, porn in general, and we have a really great guest with us today who is going to be helping us with this topic. So J. K. Amazy is a porn addiction recovery coach and founder of the number one porn addiction recovery program, the Porn Reboot System.

He’s struggled with an out of control behavior with pornography for over 11 years and unable to quit using therapy, 12 steps, and other methodologies. He created a unique system which allowed him to control his sexual behavior within a few short weeks. Porn Reboot is a system of pornography addiction treatment which helps high performing business owners, executives, entrepreneurs, and professionals who are dealing with porn addiction problems.

His method of treating pornography addiction has been tested for over a decade and doesn’t require willpower, religion, or therapy. He helps men identify signs of porn addiction. Porn addiction, overcome the shame of struggling and develop coping strategies to help you end your behavior permanently. If you’ve struggled with this for so long and feel that controlling this behavior is impossible, he wants you to know there is hope.

So welcome, JK. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Been looking forward. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, before we hit record, I was just saying this is, you know, an important topic and something I haven’t covered on the show yet and something that, you know, I’ve worked with some clients on this and this is all you do.

So obviously you shared your personal story in the bio. Yeah. Bye. Even from talking to you before the recording, like, you’re just very passionate about this. Like, what, what makes you so passionate about this? That’s actually a great way to start. I’ve been interviewed a lot. You went straight for the, the jugular, straight for the passion.

I feel that it’s, there’s a selfish part of it, and then there’s an altruistic part. The selfish part is that I’ve grown tremendously. from controlling my out of control behavior. I think a lot of men who might be struggling with a compulsive sexual behavior and listening to this might have built a habit of compartmentalizing it and going like, well, that’s a different part of my life from everything else.

I found that once I was vulnerable and open about it and decided to face it, A lot of my other weaknesses and insecurities fell away, which allowed me to accomplish some pretty cool things in other areas of my life, relationship wise, in terms of, especially my career. My career really took off. My confidence, my ability to communicate, all of these things were things that came from, um, facing my out of control behavior head on.

That’s the selfish part. Okay. The altruistic part is I finally, you know, everyone talks about, Oh, what’s a way that I can, I can, I want to, I want to have purpose. I want to give back. I want to help people. And, um, the altruistic part is I get very excited about seeing other men, not every man. My program isn’t for everybody, but a lot of other men benefiting in the same way I do.

I do. I have a soft spot for the underdog. Love that. There are a lot of men out there who have no dating skills. They don’t know how to manage the, uh, how would we call it? Intersexual dynamics in today’s world with the internet. They have a lot of insecurities around sex, around masculinity. And I feel that I’ve been placed in a unique position where I can influence them holistically.

And, uh, it’s just exciting to see that change in their lives. That’s so cool. I mean, that, that feels like a lot of the reason why I do the work I do too, you know, like, it’s very meaningful to be part of someone’s transformational life. And it is kind of that much cooler when you can relate to it personally and know, like, kind of from the inside, like, what that transformation feels like.

So that’s For sure. So you know what it’s like. So I’m kind of curious, and I don’t know how many of your secrets you can give away, but, you know, in the bio, it kind of said, like, you know, you don’t have to rely on 12 steps, you don’t have to rely on therapy. And so, like, what did you do to, like, figure out this system that worked for you in just a few weeks?

Well, first of all, there are no secrets. Um, I’m very, I’m very, very open about what I do. Yeah. Yeah. I’m very open about what I do. Literally, uh, my entire system is available for free online. Um, the Porn Reboot podcast has over 500 episodes and on my YouTube channel, we have, uh, A little over a thousand videos and you’re filled with tips and techniques and the entire system is, is really out there.

Okay. But yes, we don’t, we don’t use a 12 step methodology. What we do is call rebooting. And those of you who are watching the video have this neon sign that I probably outgrown. As I look at it, I’m just like, dude, come on, grow up, like change it to like more of a wood background. Dark background. It’s kind of working.

Yeah. Yeah. I’m, I’m a little bit sick today. I’m nasally. So the whole cave look. Yeah. Works for me. Yeah. Yeah, Dark Cave book works for me. But there’s a neon sign with a P and a reset button in the middle, which stands for Porn Reboot. And the reason why this is called Porn Reboot as opposed to Porn Recovery is because, um, traditional recovery typically involves a man.

Doing a few things that actually keep most men stuck. It’s very helpful for the vast majority of men, but it doesn’t take them all the way. What I mean by that is to truly end an out of control behavior. You not only have to rewire your brain, but you actually have to change your self image. You have to see yourself as somebody who is worthy of being loved.

And a lot of men who are engaging in a compulsive behavior are. Simply trying to feel worthy to, to complete something within them. They’re not feeling enough. And you’re constantly medicating this feeling of not being enough. Yeah. Also a traditional recovery is about recovering that which you lost to your out of control behavior.

So let’s say you lost your values. Uh, you lost the relationship. You lost your sense of purpose, um, whatever it was that you lost, you go to a 12 step group or a therapist who uses a traditional recovery methodology and they say, you know, we’re going to, we’re going to get you these things, get all these things back.

Let’s say you are 35 years old and you were addicted when you were 24. The man at 20, at 35 is very different from the 24 year old. You’re not, you’re not going to go looking for a 23 year old to date, uh, you might not want to. Things have changed. Some guys do. Yeah, some guys do. Lesbereal. And, and for some of them it’s very painful, uh, because society has changed a lot too.

At 35, the things a woman is looking for in a man are a little bit different, you know, like at 24 you can live in a studio apartment and I’m generalizing of course, if you’re living in a studio apartment. In certain cities, you have no choice but to live in a studio. Yeah, that’s fair. Like New York. But by 35, by 40 years old, uh, you want to have your shit together for the most part.

And recovery’s not going to get you there. A lot of the people that you, you, a man who walks into a 12 step group looks at the sponsor. This person tells you what your life is going to look like. So you have to, he tells you, get into a relationship. You must be in a committed relationship. If not, you will always be an addict.

Stop using this substance. Stop doing all these things. That’s the example. But is that the best example for you probably not and what I found really quickly was that I didn’t like being put in a box I love free of my behavior, but I didn’t want somebody to tell me that hey You must submit to a higher power.

You must admit you’re completely powerless in order to overcome this behavior Mm hmm, right. You must live a the straight and narrow life. What’s the straight and narrow? Life is so filled with adventure. Like, life is so massive. There’s so many things to do. So many things to experience. People to experience.

Ideas. And you’re telling me that I have to get married, get into a relationship. The responsible thing to do is get a mortgage. And I must live on this path day by day. Like this predetermined path. Exactly. And if I ever relapse, everything I’ve done doesn’t count for anything. I must start right from the beginning.

You’re trying to tell me that if John was off alcohol or his compulsive sexual behavior would escort to pornography for 15 years. Let’s say his wife decides that she’s done with the relationship and he relapses. It’s all over. That’s what they tell you in traditional recovery. Yeah. Like you relapsed dude, you gotta start from the top.

His brain rewired. He learned a lot during that time. Absolutely. His self image changed. Right. So those were a few of the things that do help a lot of men, but they didn’t work for me. And I realized that there is, there are a whole bunch of men who are not finding quote unquote recovery. Yeah. Because they’re in the wrong system.

And that’s where Porn Reboot came from. Which totally makes sense. And like a couple of the, the words or points that you, said, um, resonated with me because I’m an internal family systems therapist. So you use the word, you know, like worthy of being loved. And then you said something about like kind of being enough or feeling enough.

And so in internal family systems that those are considered like exiled parts. And so it actually makes sense a lot of what you’re saying, because it seems like some of the methodologies are all about let’s keep those parts exiled. You know, instead of actually healing them. So, it’s like you’re not really getting to the root cause with, and I, I do think 12 steps are great for a lot of people in a lot of circumstances, but I really agree with you with like, they can only get people kind of so far, and you kind of have more of that predetermined path, and personally, I’m also just all about like freedom of choices, and like being authentic, and being fully you, and that’s, That’s hard to do.

There’s like this prescribed path that you’re like, supposed to take. So, um, so I really appreciate the perspective you’re bringing. Uh, I’m curious, like, you know, I haven’t gone through your thousand videos on YouTube, although I did watch a couple of them. And so how do you work with people when they feel like, you know, You know, maybe I want this really deep connection, but I’m almost like settling for compulsively using porn instead because maybe there is this unworthiness or there is this fear of not being enough.

Like, how do you work with people to heal that? Those are deep things. Those are deep things and everyone’s different. I’m not a big fan of courses to help people end their behavior simply because everyone comes with different issues. We have men who show up not because they have anything complex going on.

They just exposed themselves to pornography for far too long. A lot of it is really, uh, circumstantial, right? Um, in my case, it was being exposed to pornography at a time in my childhood when I was very lonely. So I ended up using it to medicate loneliness to the point that it became compulsive. And then when I learned how to orgasm in adolescence, Then it became, um, really just, it became a cycle and it became hardwired into my neural pathways.

So that happens with some people and it’s important to find out what’s that person’s specific situation instead of just, uh, putting them into a specific box. We have others who are, um, I often say that men come to us for one of three reasons, out of love, out of duty, or out of fear, and it’s identifying like, Hey, what is it that’s bringing you here in the first place?

Uh, working with a client is collaborative. If you start working with somebody on something that they should be working on and they are not ready for that, it’s, it’s not going to work. They’re going to be closed off because the vast majority of men who show up, there’s a lot of shame. So they feel like they’re a very bad person.

There’s a lot of trauma too, for some men. And for those who are traumatized, it’s important to have them realize that it’s not the trauma itself that’s the problem. As a recurring or trauma, trauma, trauma. It’s the belief that, or the, the part of you that feels that the trauma shouldn’t have happened. So it’s that belief that the trauma shouldn’t have happened, that persistence belief that is the main problem, not the traumatic event itself.

See, the traumatic events happened. The first question is, have you accepted the reality that the traumatic events occurred? It doesn’t matter what the system is. If somebody does not accept that, it becomes very difficult. For And whatever you want to call it, the sub personality, the part, the schema, whatever type of modality.

That you’re using part of that sub personality is being, or that heart is being medicated with the out of control behavior. And this is for those who have experienced some form of trauma. So it’s, it’s a, it’s a big question you ask. It opens up, it opens up a whole. Uh, a can of worms. Okay, so as we’re getting into it, I’m also thinking, like, what are some of the commonalities of the men that come to you?

Like, what, I don’t know, history, or what type of belief system, or what type of trauma, like, do people have that wind up with this issue? Again, it’s varied, and it depends on, we’re an international company. We work mostly with men in the United States, but we also work with men from all over the world. And in the United States, it’s mostly conservative men who have, uh, come up in a, uh, religious background.

Um, and sometimes it’s not a religious background. There are a lot of American families that used to be religious. They don’t go to church anymore, but they’ve kept all the conservative values. Like they still celebrate Christmas, but it’s not about Jesus, it’s about Christmas. Right. Yeah, those values are still there.

We see quite a bit of that. A lot of religious guilt, a lot of Spiritual abuse and fear of, uh, going to hell forever and being punished for, for your behavior. We have a lot of very nice guys, guys with nice guy syndrome, a big portion of them, um, Medicaid, um, a lot of the, the guilt that comes up and the shame of being a nice guy.

Um, and the relationships there is a lot of nice guys tend to be in friendly relationships or friends owned by different women, but deep down inside, they want to have sex with the woman or be in a relationship with her. A lot of that Medicaid, that pain, I used to be a nice guy. And so not. Hiding that part of you over time generates a lot of shame, a lot of insecurities, poor self image as you keep wondering, well, why does she go for this other guy?

What does he have going for him? Why am I never the one who is chosen? And then we have men who are in unhappy relationships. Um, we have a lot of men who they got with the first pretty girl that was available to them. They didn’t approach her, she approached him, and he felt he was so lucky, and so he got married.

But the truth was that, um, he hadn’t expanded his sexual horizons, so to speak. So he hadn’t had a variety of sexual experiences. And as he got older, and his finances came together, and he got a little bit more confident, he started questioning, like, maybe I should have dated more. Maybe I should have had more experiences.

And pornography became the outlet, but because it’s high speed internet pornography, fortunately became compulsive. And I could just keep going with examples, but. No, I have a client that fits, or a former client who fits exactly into that category where it was kind of like, Oh, maybe I should have had more experiences or maybe I’m, you know, I love my wife, but we’re not having a lot of sex and, and that high libido.

I mean, do you see that a lot of these people have a higher than average sex drive combined with. Sort of the guilt and shame around it. I think they don’t know the difference between their libido and And the out of control behavior and that’s one thing that’s very important because a lot of them show up and talk about oh my high sex drive high sex drive They have to be taught to differentiate between that and yeah They’re compulsive behavior and they cannot tell the difference until they’ve had A period of staying away from that compulsive behavior.

We also have individuals who are simply hypersexual and they don’t know that they’re hypersexual. Um, so they consider it to be that they have a, a high sex drive. We have individuals who are bipolar. Yes. And when they are going through the, the, the hypomanic phase, um, they are, there’s a tendency to be more.

Hypersexual. Uh huh. And the individuals who are in a constant state of anxiety and the only thing that can change the state of their nervous system is orgasm. So these are just a few things that can give the impression that somebody has a high sex drive. So the minute a man comes up to me and starts, Oh, well, you know, I’m a really high sex drive person.

I always question that because the truth is in today’s day and age, statistically speaking, There are very, very few men who are actually high sex drive. Like they, they think they know what high sex drive is, but they don’t. Most men have low testosterone levels. Every single client of ours is required to do a hormone panel before they work with us.

Yeah, we look at everything. We have a program called the Optimum You Program. Uh, formerly known as the biochemistry reads where, um, we have a coach there from Cyanogenics who, which is the top anti aging clinic in Beverly Hills. They work with billionaires, celebrities, and so on. And he looks through their blood work, um, gives them recommendations.

And the vast majority of men have suppressed, um, androgenic systems like their estrogen is too high. Or the uh, testosterone is too low, a lot of that is cultural things and contaminants and using plastics and, um, just living in, in a, in, in a, I’m, I’m with you on that. I mean, testosterone, I just, just talked to a client about getting on testosterone right before this today.

Yeah. And, um, it is, it’s like an epidemic and I actually, I kind of want to like underline that for people listening. Like, if you have low energy, if you have even like depression or symptoms like that, if you have low libido, apparently, you know, compulsive poor use and masturbation could even be a symptom.

Yeah. But, um. You know, to really go get that checked and it’s not a super expensive test to do, but you know. Yeah. There are different ways you can do it. Yeah. Cause it’s your whole, it’s your holistic health. It’s not just your sex life that it impacts, it’s like your general wellbeing. So go get that checked out people.

Okay. So that’s awesome. So you do a really like holistic perspective. And I know you’ve mentioned, you know, that there’s kind of like group elements and individual elements of your program. Um, like how do you address so many different presenting issues and so many different Um, people who have different experiences and backgrounds in your, um, group program.

Well, by being an expert at the subject matter and, and I, I don’t, I don’t mean that in a, in a arrogant way. I just truly believe that there are a lot of people out there who are coaches, um, but I do believe that a good coach in an area like this has to have some sort of competence across Different disciplines.

Motivational interviewing, rationally motivated behavioral therapy, CBT. Uh, some form of a regular mindfulness practice and they have to be doing their own work, working with a therapist, attending retreats. And I truly believe in it. Maybe I’m old school in that way. I truly believe in, in, I have so many certifications, I’ve finished certifications and corrected their exam for them and sent them back to the exam and said, these questions are wrong.

And they were like, yeah, bro. Can you help us? I’m not surprised. I know I don’t know you that well, but I’m not surprised you got that like nerd energy, but like in a good way where you’re like, I’m going to get into like every little minute detail and I’m going to figure this out, which is a good thing.

That’s the thing you want in a coat. That’s great. I have to walk a fine line to knock him off as, as a, as a douche. Um, but, but I’m passionate about this. Like, like you said, and it simply means, um, constantly studying and, and staying on the quote unquote, cutting edge of what’s happening. With, with addiction, compulsive behaviors, understanding the sociological perspective and how people are interacting with things.

Like for example, now something I’m getting into is AI and AI girlfriends and trying to predict like, yeah, what’s going to happen when lonely men have their favorite avatar who is customized to their personality traits. Like, That’s weird. That’s weird. Do we have to prepare for that? What do we do? How?

People have to be staying ahead of this. It’s not just about showing up and talking to the guys. And supporting them. It’s staying ahead. The second part is, I don’t do this alone. So while I lead, Um, I’m very, very fortunate to have a, an equally passionate team around me. So we have other coaches, um, actually next week, our first cohort of Porn Reboot certified coaches is, uh, beginning their training, um, which is a very, very intensive training.

And so we have clients who graduate, who’ve been with us for a few years, who go on and, and they have an interest in this area. and they support others. Um, so they’re at the front lines and, um, it’s, it’s really a team effort. That’s amazing. I mean, it’s a lot, like this is not easy work. And one of my other thoughts or questions is, you know, how do you get the participants to be really, Committed because I feel like there’s, you know, a lot of effective techniques, but it’s hard for people to kind of like face their demons and to, to keep showing up and, and to be committed.

So that behavioral element, how do you guys work with that? You gotta be the example. That’s fair. You got to be the example and all the leaders have to be the example. If I’m not an armchair expert, my clients see me doing the work. If I say have a morning routine, if I say meditate, if I, if I say work with a therapist, if I say be vulnerable.

Um, I’m showing up and I’m doing all those things, right, because, uh, people are, people are bigger than the system. The community is made up of people. And the reason why we have the sheer volume of clients we have is because they don’t want to be treated in a clinical way. They don’t want to be put through a system.

A lot of them will work with their therapist or they will leave their therapist or rehab and come to work with us. And I’m like, why? It’s like, because y’all are human, like you’re like experts, but at the same time, it’s true. It’s yeah. It’s connecting with them is reminding men that grown man that, Hey, like I am proud of you and I’m proud of you because I, I know, and I remember what you were like when you came in and I remember what, and I can see the progress that you’ve made and sharing your story.

Unfortunately, a lot of therapists, um, legally cannot, not legally, but, but ethically are not allowed to share. Um, they’re very limited in how much personal, uh, experience they can share and that hobbles them with men who are dealing with compulsive behaviors because you’re trying to get these men to come out of their shells.

You’re trying to get them to, uh, connect. It’s the opposite of, of addiction, not sobriety, it’s connection. And if they’re not connecting with you, you’re only going to get so far. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you’re speaking my language here, so, you know, I am a licensed therapist, but I work as a coach now, and part of it is because of what you’re saying, you know, because I’m, and there is a whole school of therapy that’s like person centered therapy, where it’s like, you know, but I, I look at my role, it’s like I am a human helping a human, I just happen to have some licenses and credentials, you know, um, and it’s like I, I’ve learned a few things, but, Um, I do think that’s important, you know, and it’s like, well, I don’t want to make it all about me.

It’s like, I, I want to be a human and I don’t want to feel like I have to hide certain parts of myself, you know, and, and I think, um, now that I’m kind of bridging, you know, the two worlds of, you know, therapy and, and not therapy, it’s like, I really see why some people are turned off by, You know, more of a clinical system and it doesn’t always serve them, you know, especially if it’s like, oh, we’re going to slap you with all these labels and pathologize you and like make you get in your head about what’s wrong with you.

It’s like, that’s not really what we’re trying to do, I hope. So anyways, that makes a lot of sense to me the way that you’re approaching it and I can see that you’re really creating a container. for men to feel. I mean, it’s interesting because I don’t think of men needing to feel safe, but they do, right?

Men are human. It’s like creating a sense of safety. Men need to feel safe. The type of safety they require, it’s a little bit different, but I wouldn’t even say it’s different. It’s, they are human. Like, like everybody else, they, they are capable of being hurt. Many of them are already wounded emotionally.

Um, And it’s, but it’s very difficult for them to find a place that is safe because it’s never been defined for men, like, not only do they have to step out of the, the stereotype of the whole man up thing, but, but it’s, no one has told a man like, Hey, this is a safe space for you to do that. And, and even if there was a place that was safe, they have this internal voice, which says.

You’re a pussy if you do that. That it’s, it’s you’re weak. It’s weak to be vulnerable. It’s weak to be accountable. It’s weak to admit to another man that you can do this. And that’s why it comes back to being the example. Um, I, I mentioned to you when we were speaking first during our initial, initial interview that I call men out.

I’m very aggressive. I’m very upfront with men, but at the same time, I am capable of being vulnerable. I’m fully capable of crying with my clients and sharing the pain in my life as well. And it’s very important for them to see that. Um, I’m a man who is capable of verbal and physical violence and saying it openly, and I’m not politically correct at all, but at the same time, I’m fully willing to back down and be like, Hey man, is there anything I said to you today that, that just came across the wrong way?

Like, did it hit your ego in a certain way that you felt was inappropriate? Because This is a group of men and we don’t want to hold anything yet. So if you didn’t appreciate it, you can say it like, you can be like, Hey, Jake, I really didn’t appreciate how you called me out on that. And if I’m wrong, I will absolutely apologize genuinely.

And I’ll keep checking it out. And I’ll also reassure you that it is safe. That I will not do that again. So that whole perspective needs to be seen by men. That’s what I mean by being, uh, the example of, of masculine safety. I love that. And I mean, I’m, I’m kind of all like, I feel like men are kind of, I don’t know, going through something collectively, you know, in terms of like growth or what is new masculinity.

And I think like what you’re describing. To me, it really sounds like that’s it. So it’s like, I know our topic is technically porn addiction, but I feel like we’re kind of getting into this other area, too, of like being a whole man, you know, where it’s like you can be this and that. Like you don’t have to be this one narrow thing or fit in this tiny little box.

Like you can. You can cry and you can also be powerful and you can also focus on achievement and you can also be a friend and part of a community. It’s like you can be all the things and, and I love that and I think there, there does need to be more of those examples. Exactly. I think it’s interesting you said that, you know, our topic is about pornography addiction.

But the topic is actually not about pornography addiction. Because pornography addiction is really just the symptom of deeper issues. Right. That’s what it is. So it’s, it’s, it’s good that we’re not talking about the pornography addiction. It means the questions you’re asking. are actually the right questions.

Mm. Thank you so much. If it was just only about, technically about pornography addiction, then you would just stay on the surface. For us to have gotten here, you have to have asked the right questions. I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know where the surface is. Sometimes I’m just exploring. We just see where we go.

I think you’re a naturally very curious person. Extremely. Yeah, that’s like a defining characteristic of my personality. Um, but yeah, okay, let’s ask a few porn questions though, because I feel like, I do feel like there’s probably some people. For sure. Listening, you are kind of like, okay, I do have an issue with this.

Like, at what point, at what point do I need some help with this? Um, and yeah, like, how do I know if it’s actually a problem that I can’t solve by myself? Absolutely. I think it comes back to when something is compulsive. You know, there are a lot of men who, uh, have cognitive dissonance, which is simply when you are engaging in a certain behavior, But, you know at the same time subconsciously that this is not in line with your values, yet you keep doing that thing.

In between that, cognitive dissonance is created, and that’s the place from which black and white thinking, justification, and rationalization sprouts from. Um, so if you’re sitting there going like, well, I, I, it’s not an addiction, it’s more of a dependence and you know, I think I got this under control.

It’s probably some form of rationalization, especially if you’ve listened to Heather and I thus far in the, in the podcast, there’s a reason subconsciously why you’re here. Um, or maybe you’re just a great fan of Heather and you listen to whatever she puts out and you just like, I’ll go with her. Either way, I’ll take it.

But if you find yourself engaging in sexual behavior, which doesn’t feel good to you emotionally or otherwise, if it is interfering with any major of your domain of your life, emotional, mental, social, familial, spiritual, even, um, And despite repeated attempts to stop, you cannot. Then you’re dealing with a compulsive behavior.

And it takes a lot of honesty to sit down and address this because you also live in a society Where you pop open Instagram and you see all these pictures, you see things which could be, and years ago were classified as pornography. You see hundreds of thousands of people liking it. You see people commenting on that.

And that’s one of the things that really leads to a sense of hopelessness for a lot of men out there. And if you’re out there listening, you know what I’m talking about. Where you feel that you’re the only one who perhaps cannot control his sexual behavior. They’re like people on Instagram and YouTube and social media and they’re watching TV and they’re people having sex and engaging in sexual behavior.

And I’m this guy who just gets triggered and has to jerk off every moment and watch porn every day. Maybe I’m broken. Maybe something is wrong with me. And I want you to know that. You’re not broken and nothing is wrong with you. This is just a response to a society that’s rapidly changing. You were not designed, your brain was not designed to handle high speed internet pornography.

Like every man today, 2023, 2024, who is listening to this has literally watched and seen more naked people having sex than every single one of his ancestors that ever. Even the last generation, this is the first generation where men have seen and women have seen more people having sex than all their ancestors combined.

I guess that makes sense. I’ve never really thought about it that way though. That isn’t normal. Our brains are not designed. So, as a collective, human beings are evolving because of technology, because of social media. Yeah. And, um, and one of the, the, the, how would I put it? The people caught in the crossfire are those who are susceptible to compulsive sexual behaviors and other things like internet addiction and so on.

Yeah. I also think about it with, like, processed foods that are like sugar. Oh, sure. Like, we weren’t designed to be exposed to that much of that either, you know? So, I mean, if people are listening and like, okay, maybe I don’t have this issue with porn. It’s like, maybe you have it with something else. You probably do.

True. Something to think about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think a lot of the same, you know, principles kind of apply. There was, um, I don’t know if it was Mel Robbins or someone else, but someone had posted on Instagram. And, uh, it was kind of saying something like a third of people are highly addictive, a third of people, like, can get addicted, and they’re kind of in the middle ground, and then, like, a third of people just, like, don’t get addicted to anything.

So, uh, I don’t know where the third is that doesn’t get addicted to anything. Um, I don’t know if they really exist. I know online, I think a lot of people share different things. Yeah, I’m like, aren’t we all addicted to our cell phones? I don’t know. At the end of the day, I think we’re just all sophisticated monkeys.

I mean, we literally have our brains, our bodies are capable of producing opiates, endogenous opiates. So if you have a body that can literally produce its own opiates. That’s wild, isn’t it? Yeah, then anybody can be addicted to anything. So I’ll take those, those basic rather simplistic, you know, like breakdowns, which are really easy to digest with a pinch of salt because, um, the number of people who are addicted to things like validation, addicted to power, addicted to a lot of other things people are addicted to.

So when you’re like, Oh, this person isn’t, isn’t addicted to like, what are you actually talking about? What are we referring to? And we all know people, if you really dig deep. I think the conclusion would be everyone’s addicted to something, like you implied earlier. Right, right. And the validation one is huge.

I see that one. a lot. I think it’s subtle and maybe one that we don’t think about a ton, but, um, when I pulled my Instagram audience, I think 80 percent said that they’ve used sex for validation. I was like, that’s pretty high. I was like, okay, maybe this is something that we need to address a little bit more.

But, uh, yeah. So one of, one of the questions you mentioned, uh, that you get asked is how do you heal your brain from porn use? And it’s kind of got me thinking about, um, what we were just talking about. Right. And, you know, dopamine, right? So it’s like our brains produce dopamine and it’s like our pleasure reward neurotransmitter and it tends to be, you know, pretty correlated with, you know, addictive compulsive behavior.

So do you, do you educate people about dopamine? Like how do you work with them? Yeah. I think a lot of people talk about dopamine when it comes to pornography addiction. But the interesting thing is that most people who struggle with an addiction to pornography are not addicted to dopamine. Okay. Okay. So.

Yeah, so pornography is a behavioral or also called a process addiction, um, compared to like a substance abuse disorder. Right. And the main difference is that with a substance abuse, the substance is often external. So an external opiate, alcohol, it’s external and then it changes your state almost instantaneously.

However, a process of behavioral addiction means that. You are compulsive with a certain part of that behavior. An example would be, um, John works from home. He’s, um, he runs his own marketing agency. Okay. John gets very stressed out in the middle of the day because he has a lot of clients and Uh huh. Uh, he just doesn’t know what the hell’s going on with Facebook, with Facebook ads, and his clients are hounding him.

So stressful. So he’s stressed in the middle of the day. John’s wife is in real estate and she leaves for work to do a house showing. Okay. John doesn’t realize that his trigger happens every time his wife leaves. The door’s shutting, the car’s starting. Peeling out the driveway, it begins a process in John’s head.

Uh huh. Um, John immediately experiences a rise in his adrenaline, which also coincides with an increase in his testosterone levels. Okay. It is also connected to him going through his rituals or engaging in his behavior. So he might close the blinds, he might lock the door, he might go into incognito. He goes through all these different rituals.

And then he begins the process of searching. The moment he pulls up the website, he releases something like norepinephrine. Norepinephrine is produced by the adrenal glands and it changes his state. He goes from being fatigued and stressed out to being a little bit hyper and excited. His pupils dilate as he’s aroused and more testosterone is released.

Now, John could just go straight to the orgasm which releases the endogenous opiate. Dopamine. Dopamine. Dopamine. Dopamine. But why doesn’t John just watch one video, jerk off to it, and uh, get the dopamine hit? Yeah. It’s a great question. Yeah. Because it’s a process addiction. John is actually addicted, in John’s case, to the release of No F ing Effort.

This is the reason why each, uh, uh, clip of pornography he views is not the clip. He watches it, but he’s like, I’m going to look for something better. Oh, no, no, no. This is not good enough. I’m going to look for something else. The porn site, Pornhub understands this and thus the design of its website and the algorithm is designed over time to appeal to people at different processes in the addiction cycle.

And so he keeps looking for the right shots. Finally, he finds something that just seems to elicit, based on his own historical arousal template, the things that turn him on. Maybe a woman who looks a certain way, a certain type of moans she makes, certain ethnicities. Whatever it is that John’s aroused to, it just hits the sweet spot and he has the maximum amount of joy.

No epinephrine released and then he decides this is where I’m going to bring out the dopamine combo with this For the best orgasm and so the next time John engages in this because he spent so much time Chasing the right the right scene by the time he gets to that scene again. He’s used to it. He’s already conditioned to it It’s just like it’s not That much No, uh, no effort that’s released the dopamine rush isn’t that good because he’s too familiar with it So he seeks something that’s even more taboo And more extreme because the more extreme it is, the more adrenaline and no efinephrine it’s going to release.

So he needs more of all these different neurochemicals in order to get the right dopamine hit. In the process, our friend is also, in the process, our friend is also, uh, increasing the number of dopamine receptors he needs because he’s getting these bigger and bigger rushes of dopamine. So when. He goes back to his baseline.

His baseline is no longer normal anymore. And so when you put somebody in a traditional AA program or rehab program, whatever they have out there. They are treating them as if they have a substance abuse addiction. Even SAA, they don’t. It is a behavioral addiction. It is very specific. And everybody is addicted, so to speak, at a different stage of this process.

The reason why it’s customized is, until you can find out the exact place on body, or you can teach them, you To find that place, it’s going to be very difficult to, to help them end their behavior. It’s like quite the process. I can see why you have to have a whole system and like really customize it.

Like with everyone coming in in a different place with different reasons and different chemicals involved, it’s like a lot of detective work, you know? I will say this. I know to the average listener, it sounds like, Oh my God, do I have to figure all of this out myself? The beauty of Porn Reboot is you don’t.

So, we have systems that teach you how to identify this without even talking about the neurochemicals. Wow. Because in your real life, you’re not, Oh, I’m releasing adrenaline now. There’s no effort. You don’t need to know about this thing. This is just the nerdy stuff I did to create the system. I had to do this.

But it’s, we give you very simple exercises that you can use to identify certain states you’re in. And you can interrupt the states, um, and you can use these coping strategies, um, instead of something else. So you can learn how to be an observer and become self aware. So it’s not necessary to know the biochemistry of, uh, addiction recovery in order to end your behavior.

This, this does just sound like such good life skills because I’m seeing how You can apply this if like you’re a little bit of a workaholic or you can apply this in your relationships if you get obsessive, you can apply this with your, you know, food behaviors or smoking or whatever. It’s like you just know yourself so much better.

It’s awesome. I love that. I, I’ve, um, we have another coach in the program and he’s been bugging me for the longest time possible. He’s like, God, you could just like, he’s like, you’ve gone so deep into this. He’s like, this isn’t even about fun anymore, dude. He’s like, you, could you imagine if you could do this with gambling addicts, with so many people?

He’s like, your system can be applied across the board. And he probably has. He probably does. But you seem busy enough with this. I’m busy now. Like, we’re super busy. Like, we’ll get to it. Yeah. So, one of the things you mentioned, though, I did want to ask about, so you were mentioning the idea that, you know, people will seek out more and more extreme porn or extreme kind of behaviors to get that, um, adrenaline and norepinephrine boost that they’re looking for.

How do you reset that? Because you mentioned, like, they kind of get more receptors or they have, you know, so it’s like their body has kind of gotten to this extreme, you know, place, how do you bring it back? So when I say more receptors, just for the neurologists who are listening, like you actually don’t, can’t make more receptors.

That’s just a term I’m using for the, the, the purpose of the podcast to make it understandable. Um, but that’s where withdrawal comes, comes in, right? Because this individual has been, you have been so used to living with pornography and living in a state of, um, constantly. Medicating or anesthetizing your emotions that that’s your normal.

So when you don’t have that, you do not feel normal. And they have very, very strong cravings. Um, the cravings come along with withdrawal symptoms, like a lot of irritability, a lack of motivation, um, numbness when it comes to emotions, because there’s an imbalance. All of these neuro neurochemicals have a little dance that they do together in your body, which is unique to you.

And now you, you’ve abused one, so to speak, or you’ve abused a few of them and they just, they’re not getting what they need. So at least understanding that, understanding like, Hey, I’m a little bit depleted. It’s going to take a while, maybe weeks, maybe even months for me to get back to normal. Um, that’s helpful.

And then understanding the things that can help you in those areas. Lifestyle is very important here. Mike. People begin to realize, Oh, when I connect with others, it releases certain things. So if we have a really good group session, it releases oxytocin. It’s a bonding neurochemical, you feel connected.

And you’re just like, that’s weird. Before this, I was super irritated. It doesn’t mean that your dopamine levels are back to normal. It just means that you’re experiencing something else because you don’t have to constantly be in a state of. Of releasing dopamine, right? So you might have a great meditation session and release serotonin.

And that’s just a different subtle quality. And the way I work with clients is I teach them that your withdrawal from something like dopamine, for example, or any other neurochemical is simply an opportunity for you to become present, mindful, and aware. Of all the other things you’re capable of, of producing and learning that these states are normal.

What is it like to be present? What is it like to be mindful? When you’re sitting in this session, what’s happening in your mind? Do you think this other person is talking too much? Have you checked out? Is there something you disagree with? How does your body feel in the chair? What’s your breathing like?

What’s the state of your mind? Are you guys checking in? Check in with your mind. Label your emotions. What’s this emotion called? And living in that state during the withdrawal period is a wonderful one. Withdrawals don’t have to be like, like super hard. They can be a wonderful learning experience. I like that.

That’s a good reframe. Not easy, but really good growth experience. Yeah. Definitely easier said than done. Well, that’s been like so amazing and helpful. Thank you for sharing all of your, you know, wisdom and everything from years of helping people and your own personal experience. My pleasure. Uh, if people do feel like, hey, this is something that, you know, I want to work on, this guy sounds pretty cool.

Like, how do they find you? How do they work with you? You can find me by searching for my name, initials at JK, last name is M A Z E M E Z I, like amazing. Elevated recovery dot O R G, not dot com, dot O R G is our website. Um, my podcast is called the Porn Reboot Podcast. You can find it on any podcast distributor.

And you can also find me under JK Mazy, Elevated Recovery, or Porn Reboot on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram. Whatever’s out there. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll link to any links that he shares with us. So we’ll put those all in the show notes too, if you guys want to check those out. Awesome. so much for joining us today.

This has been awesome and, uh, yeah, hopefully we’ll keep in touch. Thanks everyone for listening.

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