Heather [00:00:06]:
Hello, my loves, and welcome to this very fun and exciting episode we have for you of ask a sex therapist. So today I have a very fun guest. Let me introduce her, gigi Savage. I don’t know if I’m saying that right. Savage is a writer, an all around artist on a mission to fuck shame away and empower people with self love. Read her erotica in Cosmopolitan magazine and Boyslut, which is actually one of my previous guests, Zachary Zane. So she designed the sexiest deck alive, erotic oracle cards to turn you on and help you turn the corner, and wrote the audio drama sex and the synchronicity. See her work at Refinery 29, Vogue Italia, vulture college, humor, and hoohah.

Heather [00:00:55]:
And check out her website for more. So we’ll link to her website, but welcome, Gigi. Thank you so much for being here.

Gigi [00:01:02]:
Thank you so much for having me. I got to figure out a way to get people to know the pronunciation of my last name.

Heather [00:01:08]:
That’s true.

Gigi [00:01:08]:
I should have asked, but you know what? There’s a perfume now. There’s like, a cologne called Sauvage by Dior. And Johnny Depp is like sovage. So I just need to send people that.

Heather [00:01:22]:
Here’s Johnny pronouncing my name.

Heather [00:01:24]:
Right.

Heather [00:01:25]:
So what does Sauvage mean? Because you renamed yourself, right?

Gigi [00:01:29]:
I named.

Heather [00:01:30]:
Tell us about that, what it means.

Gigi [00:01:33]:
Thank you for asking. I feel like I haven’t had the opportunity to really talk about that on air yet, but I chose sovage because it means wild. And I wanted a reminder to myself that I am a wild creature. All this shit is made up, all this society. I can change my mind at any point. And this all stemmed from a real death and rebirth in my life, which was a sexual assault in 2019. So coming through the healing of that sexual assault and doing EmdR therapy and really reshaping my mind, the gifts that came out of that was like, this amazing self permission of who am I living my life for? Like, my life flashed before my eyes, so who am I living it for? And when the answer was not me, the answer was, like, my parents religions ideals.

Heather [00:02:22]:
Whoa.

Gigi [00:02:23]:
I was, no, no. And also this biblical name that, no, no.

Heather [00:02:28]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:02:30]:
And I, long story short, got on onlyfans as the good ass goddess, shortened it to Gigi. Started just being Gigi. Yeah, that’s where it comes from. And then a couple years in, I was like, we need everyone to be calling me Gigi Sauvage. And I just legally changed it.

Heather [00:02:47]:
That is so cool. And that’s really interesting. To me, because you said before we started recording, because we were connected through Jackie, who was on a previous episode, and you’re like, oh, we all have a lot in common. And it’s really funny because I’m not going to give away my full name, but my name on the field app in Fetlife has wild in it also.

Gigi [00:03:07]:
Nice. I love it for the same reason.

Heather [00:03:10]:
I think there’s this really natural, innocent wildness that gets tamped down.

Gigi [00:03:18]:
Yeah. I mean, I don’t know if you know the book women who run with wolves or the talks. It originally was talks that also helped me realize, like, wow, especially as a woman, I’m so desire led. I’m so primal. But these structures of even, like, the patriarchy of passing down my father’s father’s father’s name that I didn’t even like anyways, because I’m an artist and I want everything to be, like, pretty. I was just like, whatever, I’m going to make the change. And I was going to also use wild, like, be gigi wild. And then my family’s French.

Gigi [00:03:55]:
My sister speaks it, and she was like, do sovage, because it means wild.

Heather [00:04:02]:
So it’s, like, savage, but sauvage.

Heather [00:04:04]:
Okay. Yeah.

Heather [00:04:05]:
That’s so interesting.

Gigi [00:04:06]:
Creature of the woods, wild person.

Heather [00:04:08]:
Okay. That’s so cool.

Heather [00:04:09]:
So obviously, going through a sexual assault is traumatic, but it sounds like it was a catalyst in a lot of ways.

Gigi [00:04:17]:
In so many ways. Now, I’m not talking about the acute, like, the immediate six months to a year, this wasn’t coming through yet, but many months into the healing and therapy and all the way until now, I honestly am just pretty grateful that that happened, because it woke me the fuck up. I do maintain, like, you don’t have to have trauma to wake up.

Heather [00:04:45]:
True.

Gigi [00:04:46]:
But sometimes it’s like a gift to wake up.

Heather [00:04:50]:
I think that’s an important lens. I mean, I think for me, even as a therapist, sometimes there was this desire to take away my clients pain, and it really took me reflecting on my own life and my own periods of intense growth and seeing how pain or trauma was a catalyst to be like, ooh, I don’t want to rob people of this. I can support them through it. I can root for them, I can guide them and show them a path, but I can’t take away that pain. And I’d actually be doing a disservice.

Gigi [00:05:21]:
Exactly.

Heather [00:05:22]:
It’s really the, like, feel it to heal it, 100%.

Gigi [00:05:25]:
No way around it.

Heather [00:05:26]:
Yeah.

Heather [00:05:27]:
And I know you mentioned that you’ve had a pretty big transformation in general. So I’d love to hear sort of. And wherever you want to start, if you want to start with growing up.

Gigi [00:05:38]:
Yeah, I’ll give kind of, like, the summary of the 180, and then we can choose where to dive in. But the summary is, like, my grandma was a nun in Hungary because my family is also hungarian. On the other side, she was, like, forced to be a nun in Hungary, and then I am an american whore.

Heather [00:05:59]:
So there’s a whole lineage of transformation.

Gigi [00:06:02]:
Yes, yes. So I grew up just like her in this, but in America, very catholic household. My parents followed the religion’s rules so closely that they had eight kids.

Heather [00:06:14]:
Wow.

Gigi [00:06:15]:
No birth control. Okay. I’m the 8th one. So I came into a family that was extremely short on resources. We were kind of like, I guess now that I’m an adult, I’m like, I think we were upper lower class, or, like, middle lower class.

Heather [00:06:30]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:06:30]:
But basically we were on and off food stamps. There was never enough resources. And all the religion telling me I was bad and wrong. Meanwhile, I’m, like, having sexual encounters with females but thinking I’m straight because of the religion.

Heather [00:06:51]:
That is interesting.

Gigi [00:06:52]:
I’m able to laugh about it now because looking back, I’m like, oh, I played college basketball. I rolled around with girls. I was always gay.

Heather [00:07:02]:
But I appreciate you bringing that up, because I also follow some accounts on Instagram that are, like, late to lesbian and stuff like that. I think there’s almost, like, a trend where it’s, like, so. And especially if people are just bisexual or queer and also attracted to other genders, it can be, which. I am so easy for that to get buried.

Gigi [00:07:23]:
Oh, totally. Especially when it’s literally easier to bring a guy home to your family who’s really religious. It’s all built in. It’s all built into the hetero romance. But anyways, I’m like this weird rainbow fairy child, but in a super conservative household where Jesus is literally painted life size on the living room wall. Life size.

Heather [00:07:51]:
Not just like a picture painting or a.

Gigi [00:07:53]:
No, no, a mural.

Heather [00:07:55]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:07:55]:
A mural of Jesus and scriptures painted on all the walls. That’s how religious my house was.

Heather [00:08:03]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:08:05]:
So then I was like, I got to get out of here. And I moved to New York City at the age of 15 and convinced my parents to let my older brother become my guardian.

Heather [00:08:16]:
Oh, wow.

Gigi [00:08:16]:
So I could bust out because I just knew there’s got to be more than this. I ended up going to a performing arts high school and then stayed for college. And it was really, like, through that exposure that I got to start opening up sexually and otherwise by seeing all these cultures, races, all these things, because I grew up in, like, a whitewashed.

Heather [00:08:37]:
Suburban New York will expose you to some things.

Heather [00:08:41]:
Oh, my God. The double meaning.

Gigi [00:08:45]:
The amount of dicks I’ve seen on subways. And then I guess summarizing through, it’s, like, relationships with men. Relationships with men. Really having this urge to do sex work. Since I was, like, 15. Yeah, I saw the show secret diaries of a call girl, okay. Which is based on a book, based on a true story. So I was like, wait, this is possible.

Gigi [00:09:12]:
But I was only 15. I didn’t do anything about it yet. Right. It wasn’t until I was 26, at the tail end of, like, an eight year relationship with a man, that I was like, I have to try this. Please, can you let me try this? Can I go on the sugar dating website and scratch this itch? And he was like, no. And then I was like, well, then can we at least open our relationship? And we tried that, and it crashed and burned.

Heather [00:09:37]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:09:37]:
But when he dumped me, then I was like, literally two weeks later, I was like, well, guess I can do sex work now.

Heather [00:09:44]:
Yeah, do whatever the hell you want now.

Heather [00:09:47]:
Yeah.

Gigi [00:09:47]:
And so I started exploring with sugar dating, which I consider, like, gray area sex work. It’s never an exact exchange of sex and money, but you’re in this dynamic that involves money and sex and.

Heather [00:10:04]:
Did.

Gigi [00:10:04]:
That secretly for years until having a whole nother relationship. And that ending, which then was my next catalyst to move into legal sex work on the books, where I can talk about it, where I can advocate for. So I road tripped to a brothel in Nevada with my best friend, who also wanted to try out being a whore.

Heather [00:10:29]:
Wow. Sorry.

Gigi [00:10:32]:
It’s so funny. I’m just like, my life is amazing.

Heather [00:10:38]:
So how did you pick out, like, a brothel? How were you, like, this is a place, or I’m going to feel well taken care of here because obviously there can be safety concerns.

Gigi [00:10:46]:
Oh, yeah. And after the pandemic, there’s about, like, 15 remaining legal brothels in America.

Heather [00:10:53]:
Wow.

Gigi [00:10:53]:
They’re all in Nevada. So we had, like, 15 to choose from. We actually started still during the pandemic, but when it was safe again. Okay. Luckily, this friend of mine, she’s on the spectrum. She’s a bit savant, so she can do, like, really detailed research. And she read all these books, and she figured out, by cross referencing stories of women, which brothel was, like, the best.

Heather [00:11:17]:
Wow.

Gigi [00:11:18]:
To work at. And she was right. Because when we started working there, talking to girls who’ve done them all, they were like, oh, yeah, this one’s the best. Okay, so you did your research. I was just going to say. I’m not going to say the place, but you guys have the Internet.

Heather [00:11:34]:
You’ll figure it out.

Gigi [00:11:35]:
It’s kind of fun for you to figure it out. Find me. And, yes, we researched. And then turns out it’s just like any job, you just apply to work there.

Heather [00:11:48]:
Interesting.

Gigi [00:11:49]:
Like on the website, you just apply.

Heather [00:11:51]:
Is there like a sexual interview of any kind?

Heather [00:11:54]:
No. Funny.

Gigi [00:11:55]:
There’s all this porn that’s like, we got to try you out.

Heather [00:11:58]:
Couch stuff. Oh, my God.

Gigi [00:12:00]:
Right? No, it’s not like that at all. I mean, it’s a female madame. She’s really cool.

Heather [00:12:04]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:12:07]:
The application is pretty straightforward. You just write a bit, you include pictures, and then really going. Your first week is the interview.

Heather [00:12:14]:
Got it.

Gigi [00:12:14]:
Because you’re either going to fit or not. The first week is like a rite of passage.

Heather [00:12:21]:
Okay. That’s how I could see that.

Gigi [00:12:23]:
A rite of passage.

Heather [00:12:24]:
Yeah.

Gigi [00:12:25]:
But what’s funny is you do have to. Once you get to sort of the second round of acceptance for the job, you have to send a picture holding the date. Like, you have to write today’s date and send the picture to prove you are who you say you are because you’re going to be coming all the way to Nevada. They potentially are paying for your kind of expensive ride from the airport.

Heather [00:12:47]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:12:49]:
And they’re going to feed you and stuff, so they need to make sure you are not catfishing.

Heather [00:12:53]:
Interesting.

Heather [00:12:54]:
So the first week, though, you were in person in Nevada, is some of this online or is it all.

Gigi [00:13:01]:
No, none of it’s online except the application in person.

Heather [00:13:04]:
Okay.

Heather [00:13:05]:
So then they know you’re coming.

Gigi [00:13:06]:
Full service.

Heather [00:13:07]:
So you and your friend are road tripping. They know you’re coming. You’re, like, ready to go.

Gigi [00:13:11]:
They know we’re coming. There’s, like, a lot of prep. Once you get in, it’s going to be a month or so until you work. And so they schedule your week with you, and then they give you, like, reading, homework.

Heather [00:13:27]:
Really?

Gigi [00:13:28]:
Yeah. That’s surprising. Yeah, I read selling luxury and maybe one other book about sales or something. Okay. And then you are doing all your preparations of packing because you’re basically moving there. You live and work in the brothel.

Heather [00:13:46]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:13:47]:
So your first week, it’s only one week, but once you get good at it, you can go for, like, two to four weeks at a time.

Heather [00:13:55]:
So interesting. So, you don’t necessarily have to live there full time, but you can kind of do, like, a residency for however long.

Heather [00:14:02]:
Exactly.

Gigi [00:14:02]:
And we call it touring. Like, we’re on tour. So each tour is, like, one to four weeks. And, yeah, you get your room assignment, you pay room and board. It comes out of your earnings.

Heather [00:14:12]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:14:13]:
But it’s pretty affordable, and they feed you, and, yeah, you’re living in a house with all these other girls doing the same thing, but you have your own room, your own bathroom.

Heather [00:14:23]:
Okay. Wow.

Heather [00:14:24]:
That’s so interesting. And so how was it being there? How did it go when you were like, I’m officially doing sex work for the first time?

Gigi [00:14:31]:
Yeah. Well, luckily, this friend and I share that same money kink of why we even wanted to get into sex work. We love the feeling of being so wanted that somebody would pay thousands and thousands of dollars just for an hour of our time. And so there was already not shame.

Heather [00:14:48]:
Cool.

Gigi [00:14:48]:
So that helped. But just as a person with a sensitive nervous system, it was a lot, because it’s like, you’re in this whole new environment. You kind of can’t leave. Like, you can. You’re not being held captive, but you’re on a contract, and you’re getting your medical testing, so, like, you kind of can’t leave because that would void your safety protocol, which is, like, mandated by the state.

Heather [00:15:16]:
Interesting.

Heather [00:15:17]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:15:17]:
You know what I mean? So you’re like, okay, I’m committing to being. Living in this house with all these other people that I don’t necessarily know or love yet.

Heather [00:15:26]:
Right.

Gigi [00:15:26]:
Although I’ll say all the girls are pretty nice. The cat house is not that caddy. That’s what I always say. And then it’s like, different food, and you’re in the middle of the desert. It’s, like, a lot to get used physically. Yeah. But the actual encounters themselves, the actual sex work, I loved it from the fucking first. That’s amazing.

Gigi [00:15:50]:
Love that part. That’s the best part.

Heather [00:15:54]:
That’s so cool.

Heather [00:15:54]:
What do you think enables you to do that? Because I think a lot of people listening would be like, aren’t there only certain people you’re attracted to? What if you’re not attracted to them?

Heather [00:16:03]:
Yes.

Gigi [00:16:03]:
I feel like that was my number one question. My first year or two starting out, people were like, but what if you’re not attracted to them? And I’m like, the thing is, I’m attracted to the dynamic. It’s almost like, that’s cool. Sometimes the fuglier, the better. I’ve had some objectively non attractive clients. And it’s almost like the heightened nature of that. Like, I’m this sparkling diamond and you’re this rough. Whatever is hot to me.

Gigi [00:16:34]:
And then it reinforces of, like, you had to pay me to get this.

Heather [00:16:38]:
I could totally see that. I love how it plays into a kink for you, too. That’s fine.

Gigi [00:16:43]:
I know I usually tell people, because at the brothel, you can either meet people by, they made an appointment and they already saw you on the website and they’re coming in specifically for you. Or what happens most often is like, you just mingle in the brothel bar lounge. And that’s where people who are walk ins come in. And so you’re kind of like making conversation. Maybe they buy you a drink. You’re like, a little bit getting to know each other before you negotiate.

Heather [00:17:08]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:17:09]:
And what I usually tell people during that time is like, just so you know, you are in my fantasy right now. A lot of them are like, what? They think that I would not be happy being a sex worker.

Heather [00:17:26]:
Right. I don’t think you’re alone in that. And I don’t know if this is.

Gigi [00:17:30]:
No, I’m not changing trend.

Heather [00:17:32]:
I think there used to be the case where it’s like, this is something people have to do for money because they don’t have other options. Maybe it’s because of my job, but I’m meeting more people like you where it’s like, this is something I’m into for me because it’s an option I want to choose.

Gigi [00:17:48]:
Snaps.

Heather [00:17:49]:
Yeah.

Gigi [00:17:51]:
I may have an upcoming piece for Cosmopolitan TBD, but something about how happy the women at the brothel are, because in my experience, these are the most satisfied, fulfilled, empowered rich women, independently wealthy women I’ve ever known. And they’re laughing. They’re laughing all the way home. They’re like, we figured this shit out. It’s one of the only ways left that you can get rich quick.

Heather [00:18:24]:
That’s awesome to hear. And I think that was mentioned. You said that was part of your journey too, of the kind of the financial journey that you’ve been on.

Heather [00:18:31]:
Yes.

Gigi [00:18:31]:
Right back to the 180 of my life. Right. Growing up on food stamps to now where I actually have savings and investments for the first time in my life. What? I’m still getting used to it. Like, I sometimes have to pinch myself and be like, we’re not in survival mode. We do have more than enough for rent and food because that has never been my life before.

Heather [00:18:57]:
Sex work. That’s amazing.

Gigi [00:18:59]:
I mean, okay, when I’m writing for a tv show, I get paid well, but those are, like, few and far between.

Heather [00:19:06]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:19:06]:
So consistently, I’ve never been wealthy, like, how I have been with sex work, and then currently, I don’t go back to the ranch that often because I dipped my toes back into the sugar dating scene in Los Angeles, and I got into a bit of a dom subdynamic, where I’m the dominant goddess, and it’s a little bit financial domination. So that’s how we’re running the ship.

Heather [00:19:36]:
We have a separate episode on Dom, which we’ll link to in the notes.

Heather [00:19:40]:
Yes, you should.

Gigi [00:19:41]:
And I need to listen to it.

Heather [00:19:43]:
It’s a fun one.

Heather [00:19:44]:
It was one of those where I was like, I probably should do, like, a kink 101 before I throw my audience into the deep end with Vin Dom. But we’re just going to go for it.

Heather [00:19:55]:
I so get that.

Gigi [00:19:56]:
Because even you hear me, I’m just like, yeah. And then I road trip to be a whore because I’m like, let’s just normalize it. Let’s just normalize it. I’m a comedian. Like, I’m a comedian and a tv writer, and I decided to go do this.

Heather [00:20:07]:
Yes.

Gigi [00:20:08]:
Maybe we don’t need kink one on one. You know what I mean?

Heather [00:20:11]:
Let’s go. I love that idea, too, of just, like, going for what you want in life. And you said something about giving yourself permission when we talked earlier. Can you say more about that? Because I think so many more people need to give themselves permission.

Heather [00:20:28]:
Yes.

Gigi [00:20:28]:
I feel like, as a therapist, I’m sure you see that. I’m sure you’re just trying to get them to the point of forgiving themselves and giving themselves permission. Yeah, I feel like that’s one of my biggest superpowers that came out of that assault. It’s just like, yeah, because back to who am I living my life for? And when the answer wasn’t me, I was like, fuck this. Now we’re going to change this all. And the answer is going to always be me, and I’m going to give myself permission to do whatever I want as long as I’m not intentionally hurting.

Heather [00:21:00]:
Right? 100%.

Gigi [00:21:01]:
But I feel like people get all these voices in their head that are almost, like, layers. And it’s like if you get down to the core, inside that core always knows what’s best for you and what you really want. But the voices of these other parts of you weigh in so loudly, and then people forget, like, oh, if I can get. Which therapy helps with. If I can get those voices to step aside. My core will probably be the one that gives me permission to do exactly what I want and tells me it’s okay.

Heather [00:21:37]:
I agree with you, and I feel like that’s been my experience, too. It’s like the way we’re socialized and it’s our fears, but it’s like you don’t want your fears running the show. It’s like it’s okay to acknowledge a fear, to take care of a part that has a fear, but it shouldn’t be in the driver’s seat. I love that you talked about parts, too, because that’s, like, my jam.

Heather [00:21:59]:
Yeah.

Gigi [00:21:59]:
Do you do parts therapy?

Heather [00:22:00]:
Yeah, I’m going to do internal systems therapist.

Gigi [00:22:02]:
I love ifs. It’s helped me so much since the.

Heather [00:22:05]:
Shout out for ifs. And you’re right, it is. It’s great for trauma. It’s really not pathologizing. The whole idea that self energy is not affected by trauma, I think just speaks to how resilient we all are. Yes, I love.

Gigi [00:22:22]:
Literally gave me the deepest breath. Also, I’m like, I get to talk to therapists twice this week. Like, my regular one and you. I’m like, this is the best week ever.

Heather [00:22:33]:
That’s awesome.

Heather [00:22:34]:
Love therapy, but, yeah.

Gigi [00:22:36]:
How can we get everyone to have therapy? How can we get insurance to cover therapy for everyone? Sex work for those who need it. I think all of these are health needs.

Heather [00:22:44]:
Yeah.

Heather [00:22:44]:
Can you say more about that, actually? So I think if you had asked me 20 years ago what I thought about sex work, it’d be so different from how I feel now.

Heather [00:22:55]:
Totally.

Heather [00:22:55]:
But I’ve also been intrigued by it for a very long time. Kind of like you’ve mentioned. I remember watching, like, jiggle’s on whatever.

Heather [00:23:02]:
Channel that was on.

Gigi [00:23:03]:
I was like, yeah, like cinemax or something.

Heather [00:23:05]:
Totally. Yeah.

Heather [00:23:06]:
This is all so cool and fascinating.

Heather [00:23:08]:
Yeah.

Gigi [00:23:09]:
It’s changed so much, and I think there’s still a long way to go. Like I just mentioned, I’ve just had this vision since I started working because since I started working in the legal setting, I have a lot of clients that are special needs or disabled or lot of autistic clients.

Heather [00:23:27]:
I see that, too.

Gigi [00:23:29]:
Right?

Heather [00:23:29]:
Yeah. That makes sense.

Gigi [00:23:31]:
People who are lonely for whatever reason, that may or may not even be in their means to control. And they have needs.

Heather [00:23:40]:
Absolutely.

Gigi [00:23:41]:
So I’m like, sex is one of your five houses of health. How does health insurance not cover your sexual needs? And I’d love to see a world where we have, like, high end professional setting. Sexual healing, because 95% of the legal sex work I do is sexual healing.

Heather [00:24:02]:
It is so fascinating, and I think, and that’s something I realized through doing the work that I do, where there are so many people who don’t have access to sex, basically. And I’ve also had clients who are sex workers and learned through their work of how they’re really helping people who.

Heather [00:24:19]:
Don’T have those outlets.

Gigi [00:24:20]:
Right.

Heather [00:24:21]:
And I think it’s a gift to be able to do sex work, too, and to hold that space for people, which is very cool and healing. And I think just because the work I do, I’m limited in that I’m helping psychologically, which is great, but until somebody goes and has an actual experience in real life, I feel like it doesn’t quite finish the healing or change their brain.

Gigi [00:24:45]:
Exactly. And I think, why is there this judgment on if that irl healing they seek is with a professional? Shouldn’t that almost be more revered? Right. There’s a lot of people who will bring in their sons, like their young sons.

Heather [00:25:05]:
Oh, interesting.

Gigi [00:25:05]:
You have to be at least 21 to enter the broadcast, so we’ll get, like, a lot of 21, 22 year old virgins, and their father or uncle is paying, and they’re bringing them there to do it because they want their son to have a good first exposure in a safe, professional way. And I’m like, hell, yeah. Also, I should have kept track of how many v cards I had collected. The running tally, I think, too, actually, I do take notes on all my clients, so I can figure out that number.

Heather [00:25:39]:
Okay.

Heather [00:25:39]:
But that’s fascinating.

Gigi [00:25:41]:
I can go through the notes.

Heather [00:25:42]:
I think so, too. And one of the things. So I work with surrogate partners sometimes with.

Gigi [00:25:46]:
Yes, I was wondering with my clients.

Heather [00:25:48]:
And so we do sort of this triadic thing where I’m working on the emotional, psychological stuff that’s underlying, and then the surrogate partner is working on the physical, sexual stuff and even exploring the wheel of consent and helping people tune into their bodies and sort of this somatic work and different touch exercises ranging from the whole spectrum of sexual activities. And it’s just when I first kind of was walked through that process, I thought, wow, I almost wish everyone could go through this. Just this safe container.

Heather [00:26:21]:
Yeah. Okay.

Gigi [00:26:23]:
Hello. How do we not only have no anatomical education or abstinence only education in my case, but we don’t have pleasure education. I mean, zero like that. How weird is that?

Heather [00:26:39]:
I mean, I think it’s incredibly bizarre, but if you ask other people, they’re probably like, oh, that’s dangerous and terrible.

Gigi [00:26:46]:
I wonder if there’s any pleasure education in other countries. Imagine if there would be some education somewhere in your upbringing where a safe adult explains to you that it’s okay to feel good in your body.

Heather [00:27:00]:
Right.

Gigi [00:27:00]:
And your body is built to feel good. And these are the safe ways you can feel good and help others feel good. Right.

Heather [00:27:06]:
And here’s your clitoris.

Gigi [00:27:12]:
Oh, and the asshole feels good, too.

Heather [00:27:18]:
All right.

Gigi [00:27:19]:
I’m hoping for all these improvements.

Heather [00:27:22]:
And I even think when people with evolve go to the gynecologist, there should be sort of like a demo because people don’t look at their genitals especially. It’s like, if you have a penis, sure. But if you don’t, the stats on how many people are looking at their evolva is so, so low.

Heather [00:27:37]:
It’s concerning. Oh, my God.

Gigi [00:27:38]:
Heather. We should link to the piece that it either just came out or it’s literally about to come out today or tomorrow. But I just wrote a whole piece with experts about looking at Vulva, the practice of looking at your vulva or having a partner look at it.

Heather [00:27:52]:
Yes.

Gigi [00:27:53]:
And the benefits.

Heather [00:27:54]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:27:55]:
That’s awesome.

Heather [00:27:56]:
Yeah.

Heather [00:27:56]:
And I do have an episode on the clitoris as well, so that’s my fifth episode, and I’ll link to that as well. But I’ve had medical doctors listen to it, two of them, and told me that they learned more from my episode than they did in medical school. And it’s an audio episode.

Gigi [00:28:11]:
You’re like, moment of silence. There’s no visual, and that’s still learning more. I’m like, this is deep, but that’s like an hour long episode.

Heather [00:28:21]:
It’s like 20 minutes.

Gigi [00:28:22]:
Not even.

Heather [00:28:22]:
Yeah, that’s so. Yeah.

Gigi [00:28:27]:
Episode.

Heather [00:28:27]:
But I feel terrible about society.

Gigi [00:28:31]:
Literally, my life.

Heather [00:28:32]:
My life.

Gigi [00:28:33]:
That’s my art. I’m like, we’re making a drop in the bucket, but at least we’re making a drop.

Heather [00:28:37]:
Exactly.

Heather [00:28:39]:
I’m just like, why are we not taught about pleasure? It’s like our own body that we live in. It just seems like, of course we should know about it.

Heather [00:28:47]:
I know.

Gigi [00:28:47]:
Do you remember how old you were when you first looked at your evolva? Because I was 26.

Heather [00:28:51]:
Oh, interesting.

Heather [00:28:52]:
I’m curious.

Heather [00:28:53]:
When I actually looked at it, I remember masturbating as a younger teen, but when did I actually look?

Gigi [00:29:01]:
I don’t know, but definitely, like, as an adult, I mean, getting a meal earlier.

Heather [00:29:07]:
I’m a very curious person.

Heather [00:29:09]:
Okay.

Heather [00:29:12]:
I don’t know how close I look. I don’t know, if I could have pointed out my clitoris for a while, you know what I mean? And I feel like everyone should be able to do that. Yes.

Heather [00:29:21]:
Okay. This is good.

Heather [00:29:22]:
We’re on a mission, Gigi.

Gigi [00:29:23]:
Exciting. I know. We really are. I mean, we really are. I feel like everything’s urgent to mean.

Heather [00:29:30]:
Part of what I love about your work in general is, like, you’re combining sexual energy and creative energy, which, by the way, are both the second chakra.

Gigi [00:29:40]:
Yep. Sacral. And you’re a double scorpio. Right?

Heather [00:29:45]:
Or was that Jackie rising and then Scorpio rising? Jackie might have been double Scorpio. And then I’m Libra, sun, virgo, moon.

Heather [00:29:52]:
Okay. Yeah.

Gigi [00:29:53]:
Because second chakra is Scorpio. I’m double sun and rising.

Heather [00:29:57]:
Oh, interesting.

Gigi [00:29:58]:
We’re together on that.

Heather [00:29:59]:
Okay. Yeah.

Gigi [00:30:01]:
Anyways, that all this Scorpio.

Heather [00:30:03]:
I know, right?

Heather [00:30:04]:
Doing something sex related.

Heather [00:30:06]:
Yeah.

Heather [00:30:07]:
Not true. Shocking, but yeah.

Gigi [00:30:10]:
Those are sex and creativity and healing, death and rebirth.

Heather [00:30:16]:
Yes.

Gigi [00:30:16]:
All second chakra.

Heather [00:30:17]:
Yeah.

Heather [00:30:18]:
So that brings us to your only fans. Share with us about that journey.

Gigi [00:30:23]:
So, like I said that I started after my assault because I was like, wait. I’ve wanted to do sex work for so long. I’ve been so scared. I’ve been even too scared to put anything on the Internet because of fear that my religious family will find out. And then I interviewed Lorrae Jo, if you know who she is, she’s a slutty girl. Probs. She has this really popular blog that’s still, like, a thing, and she was, like, top 1% on only fans.

Heather [00:30:57]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:30:58]:
And I was, like, so inspired, I decided to get on. So this is post trauma. This is about, I don’t know, about nine months, I would say, after my assault.

Heather [00:31:08]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:31:08]:
And I was like, I’m just going to do it. I’ve thought about it for so long, and I’ve thought about only putting my feet online for so long, and I’m just going to skip that step and I’m just going to put my whole self.

Heather [00:31:20]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:31:20]:
And so I was like, okay, I’m fucking doing it. And started my temple of worship.

Heather [00:31:26]:
I call it so fun.

Gigi [00:31:27]:
And the way I designed my onlyfans was really intentional. It’s like I’m Gigi, the good ass goddess. Anyone who enters, any genders can enter, but you must be respectful. You’re here to worship the art I create, and then I create whatever fucking art I want. I paint on my body. I paint using my body. I’ll pour the paint onto my ass and titties and then push it on the canvas. For those of you watching the video.

Heather [00:31:57]:
That sounds so fun also.

Gigi [00:31:59]:
And freeing. Yes, exactly. And expressive. And then I style all my shoots because I do modeling and stuff, too. And so I will style my only fans shoots and cut together really cool music videos. And I don’t do, like, raw sex acts, although I’ll never say never. Like, I might want to do that. But my only fans is really more sensual, cool.

Gigi [00:32:25]:
And it has been so healing for me because it was, like, my first, I would say, physical evidence, proof of, like, look, I’m doing something, like, kind of sex worky. Like, I’m getting paid and it’s naked imagery, so kind of like sex work. And I feel okay about myself. I feel good about this. It felt like that just really, even though I had already been actually having sex with people for money in the sugar world, onlyfans felt like a bigger deal because I was putting it online and that was all on the DL.

Heather [00:33:03]:
I could see that.

Gigi [00:33:04]:
So I think for me, it was really healing because it made me feel like I’m authentic now. Now I’m saying it out loud.

Heather [00:33:10]:
Yeah.

Gigi [00:33:12]:
Now I’m proving to myself that I’m not repressing from shame and fear. I love that I put it out there.

Heather [00:33:18]:
Yeah.

Gigi [00:33:18]:
And then it was like, oh, I’m making money, too, which I love.

Heather [00:33:21]:
It’s also nice.

Gigi [00:33:22]:
Love money. Love my money kink. So that started rolling in and it kind of started feeding itself. And I think it’s just, like, funny and hilarious that I put my ass on the Internet and that healed my life. How silly. How silly is that?

Heather [00:33:44]:
You know what I mean? Because it’s like, you’re like, this is my body, and I’m, like, reclaiming it, and I’m putting it out there how I want to and the way I want to.

Gigi [00:33:52]:
And the reclaiming aspect. So also from the assault healing going on, only fans was a moment for me to say to myself, like, he doesn’t get to take that away from me. He doesn’t get to take away how sexual I am. I wanted to do this before. I’m not going to let this stop me. In fact, I’m going to use this as encouragement to do it. That’s amazing. Yeah.

Gigi [00:34:18]:
As an artist, having the prompt and the container of only fans motivated me to make more art, which that’s healing in and of itself, because if I’m just doing it for myself and no audience is seeing it, I call it like I need the applause because I’m alive. I’m a comedian, so I need the audience. And if I didn’t have the only fans as a container for my erotic art, I maybe never would have made my deck of cards. Or I maybe wouldn’t have true. Gotten back to feeling okay about in person sex.

Heather [00:34:50]:
Yeah.

Heather [00:34:52]:
Can we pull a card for people?

Heather [00:34:53]:
Yes. Oh, my good.

Heather [00:34:56]:
Tell us how it works. Is this going to apply to everyone listening?

Heather [00:34:59]:
Yes.

Gigi [00:35:00]:
I love doing that. Whenever you’re listening, wherever you’re listening, this is from my deck called the sexiest deck alive.

Heather [00:35:06]:
Love it.

Gigi [00:35:08]:
And if you watch the YouTube, you.

Heather [00:35:09]:
Actually get to see the card, you’ll.

Gigi [00:35:11]:
Get to see the visual. Yeah, they’re super psychedelic looking. They’re all digital collage. And we’re just going to get a message of whatever we need to know right now.

Heather [00:35:20]:
Love it.

Gigi [00:35:20]:
Here it is. Femme on femme. Let me try to get the camera to focus. Oh, oops. Okay.

Heather [00:35:31]:
It might be backwards, but we’ll read it to you. It’s very cool and pink with yellow text. And it is psychedelic.

Gigi [00:35:36]:
It’s very psychedelic. There is a girl topless, happens to be me, in a wig. So if you’re curious to put the tits to the voice, you can buy the deck of cards. So this is all about divine feminine energy, which I feel like we’re already talking about 100% to you. Yes. The divine feminine is soaking in erotic energy. Tap that. I mean, tap into that.

Gigi [00:36:06]:
You need to indulge your dark, impulsive feminine side. More open, receive and be femme on femme. I just got goosebumps talking about wild, like how we started this conversation. That’s the divine feminine is the wild creature that we all have in us. It doesn’t matter your gender, you all have feminine energy. So this card is reminding you to tap into that. And to be honest, the feminine energy is way more misunderstood. It’s usually more uncomfortable than the masculine because we live in a masculine system, we do.

Gigi [00:36:43]:
So this is like, you need to rest. You need to lay down for ten minutes in the middle of your workday. That’s the feminine energy. This is like you need to eat the thing you’re actually craving because why are you being so controlling? This is like voicing your vulnerability to your partner, saying what you need, that’s receiving, that’s opening, and that’s the divine feminine. So whatever that sparks for you, listener, you need more femme on femme.

Heather [00:37:14]:
I love that. And I appreciate you even kind of defining feminine a little bit because I know for so long, I was like, what is feminine is that just like when you wear more dresses.

Gigi [00:37:27]:
They’d have us believe that.

Heather [00:37:29]:
I mean, right? That’s kind of what it seems like.

Gigi [00:37:32]:
Literally, the symbol to get into the women’s restroom is a dress.

Heather [00:37:35]:
That’s true.

Gigi [00:37:36]:
You know what I mean?

Heather [00:37:37]:
That is a little fucked up, isn’t it?

Heather [00:37:38]:
Yeah, it really is.

Heather [00:37:39]:
Yeah.

Gigi [00:37:40]:
I’m like, I want a rocker chick on the door to the bathroom. Whoa, wait. Did you see what just happened to my background?

Heather [00:37:48]:
Just turned? Like, literally rocker chick. I think you said the word and it did.

Gigi [00:37:54]:
It’s okay, you guys.

Heather [00:37:56]:
This is freaky.

Gigi [00:37:57]:
I’m doing. We’re in the future. We’re in the future. It is creepy. Wait, Heather, this card, femme on femme, actually really plays into my question for you. Possibly ask up there.

Heather [00:38:14]:
Oh, yeah, that’s right. I already forgot right here.

Heather [00:38:16]:
Is that okay?

Gigi [00:38:17]:
Can I ask you a question?

Heather [00:38:18]:
Yeah. Okay.

Gigi [00:38:19]:
So, femme on femme. I’m in my first personal life relationship with a woman. I’ve dated women for money, or I’ve dated women alongside men, like in thruffles. But I have a girlfriend. So excited. It was exciting.

Heather [00:38:40]:
Yeah.

Gigi [00:38:41]:
And she gave me permission to ask you this question, so I’m not doxing anyone. She has always had monogamous relationships. I’ve more so had non monogamous ever since figuring out that’s my nature. And we are at the beginning only like a month and a half in. Okay, that being said, we’ve been friends for five years, so I know her.

Heather [00:39:06]:
And love her deeply.

Heather [00:39:07]:
Cool.

Gigi [00:39:07]:
So we have all that built in trust. But dating wise, we’re new, and I guess we just wanted to ask any tips on approaching it as gently and healthfully as possible.

Heather [00:39:24]:
So have you decided to pursue the non monogamous path together?

Gigi [00:39:29]:
Okay, so what we decided for right now is we are monogamous and we’re doing a set time window of about three and a half months of monogamy, and then we want to revisit opening it after.

Heather [00:39:43]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:39:43]:
That being said, she’s dating a sex worker, so I’m not physically monogamous, but I’m romantically monogamous with her, and so we’re navigating that, too.

Heather [00:39:53]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:39:54]:
What we’ve been doing with that is involving her. Like, each time I see a client, she knows, she hears about it, and then she reclaims me after, which is really hot.

Heather [00:40:03]:
Okay.

Heather [00:40:03]:
I think that’s an important thing to do, is the reclaiming. And that seems to work well for a lot of.

Gigi [00:40:09]:
So even for personal. You mean not sex work?

Heather [00:40:12]:
Yeah.

Heather [00:40:14]:
I have a client right now who’s a swinger. And when her and her husband go have sex with another couple, they each have kind of different reclaiming rituals.

Gigi [00:40:23]:
Yeah.

Heather [00:40:24]:
Her husband maybe just needs some affection or cuddling and she wants to feel like he maybe plans a date or does something to show. Hey, you’re not just a fuck. You’re my special person.

Gigi [00:40:36]:
Love hearing those examples. Thank you. And I love that they can be different.

Heather [00:40:40]:
Yeah.

Heather [00:40:41]:
And I think that’s important. It’s like platinum rule instead of golden rule.

Gigi [00:40:45]:
Oh, wait, what does that mean?

Heather [00:40:47]:
Yeah.

Gigi [00:40:47]:
So the golden rule is like, treat.

Heather [00:40:48]:
Others how you want to be treated. And the platinum rule is treat others how they want to be treated.

Heather [00:40:54]:
Oh, my God. Yes.

Gigi [00:40:56]:
How have I never heard this?

Heather [00:40:57]:
Because we don’t all want the same things. We’re totally different people.

Heather [00:41:01]:
Yes.

Heather [00:41:02]:
I’m excited for you, though, and I love that.

Gigi [00:41:04]:
Thank you, girlfriend.

Heather [00:41:05]:
It’s like the fact that she’s known you, she knows who you really are. On a deep level, it sounds like you guys are going to be able to figure this out. And it sounds like there’s some flexibility on your end, too, where you’re like, let’s have this monogamous period. So it sounds like you got two people who are smart and know each other well and are willing to work on it.

Gigi [00:41:24]:
I can’t wait to tell her after this. We’re doing it right, babe?

Heather [00:41:29]:
I think you are. And I think the key, and you probably know this already, is communication. I mean, if you’re going to be non monogamous, especially, it’s just going to highlight issues that are there that maybe would be more invisible if you were monogamous and you just have to have advanced communication skills. But to me, it seems like you probably already do.

Gigi [00:41:48]:
Yeah, we were talking about exactly that and I called it overt communication because in my experience, it’s almost like you have to go beyond communication.

Heather [00:41:58]:
Yeah.

Gigi [00:41:58]:
Like extra layers. Extra layers. Extra. But I love this idea that it could be different rituals of, like, what does she need as the reconnection.

Heather [00:42:09]:
Right.

Gigi [00:42:09]:
What do I need? Because so far I think we’ve been shaping it to what I need.

Heather [00:42:12]:
So I’m going to check.

Heather [00:42:13]:
Interesting.

Gigi [00:42:14]:
Yeah.

Heather [00:42:15]:
Okay.

Gigi [00:42:16]:
Since she’s newer to it at all, so I’ve been kind of leading, but I’m going to check in.

Heather [00:42:21]:
I think that’s a great idea. I think especially because she’s newer to center it a little bit more around her needs and does she have insecurities pop up or not feel? Does she get a little concerned or worried or fearful and what helps reassure her and make her feel special.

Heather [00:42:39]:
Yes.

Gigi [00:42:39]:
I’m excited just hearing that.

Heather [00:42:41]:
Okay, good.

Gigi [00:42:42]:
Also, dating a woman. My God, you guys. I’m like, God, it’s good.

Heather [00:42:47]:
Yeah.

Heather [00:42:47]:
I love working with female couples. Like, some of my favorite couples to work with are two women.

Gigi [00:42:52]:
It’s great. I’m just like, oh, you can use emojis and text. I can borrow your clothes.

Heather [00:42:59]:
I love the emotion.

Gigi [00:43:05]:
But seriously, the emotional availability and the communication skills, which I don’t think that by nature, women necessarily have more of that, but I do think by nurture, we do.

Heather [00:43:16]:
Yes.

Gigi [00:43:17]:
Agree. So highly recommend.

Heather [00:43:23]:
It’s true.

Heather [00:43:24]:
I had another guest on here, Evan Mark Katz, and he had done a gender issue or episode on his podcast, and I was like, I need you to come on mine and do that. But one of the research things he quoted was basically that two women in a relationship, that’s like, the highest satisfaction level of all the configurations.

Gigi [00:43:40]:
Dude, I believe it, because me and her are each other’s first official girlfriends, so we’re kind of in it together. And there’s just been so many moments where she did things that are so thoughtful and so sweet. I just go, good luck, men, ever. Like, good luck, boys ever again.

Heather [00:43:59]:
So high.

Gigi [00:43:59]:
You all shot out of the water with this one.

Heather [00:44:04]:
I’m excited to hear how this goes.

Gigi [00:44:07]:
And even another small thing. I’m like, I love getting her presence, and it’s easier because I’m dressing a female, even though she’s masked she, he, they. My girlfriend boyfriend is gender fluid, non binary, and uses all pronouns.

Heather [00:44:23]:
Okay, cool. Awesome. Love that. Yeah.

Gigi [00:44:25]:
So fun. I feel like I’m getting a three for one special. Great. But I can dress him a little easier than a dude. Okay, so getting gifts is really fun, but gift wrapping, I’m, like, a dude. Never appreciated how good I am at gift wrapping.

Heather [00:44:42]:
Interesting.

Gigi [00:44:43]:
And a woman, she appreciates the artistry of my decorating and my wrapping. Those little things.

Heather [00:44:51]:
This sounds like an amazing beginning. It’s so fun. Like, being newly in love too.

Gigi [00:44:56]:
New relationship energy.

Heather [00:44:58]:
Totally.

Heather [00:44:59]:
Well, there’s been an amazing discussion. Yeah, I feel like we’re going to have to do future collabs or something.

Heather [00:45:05]:
Agree.

Heather [00:45:06]:
I love what you’re doing.

Gigi [00:45:07]:
Feel like there’s so many places more we can go, and you did so much good.

Heather [00:45:11]:
Yeah, there’s a lot of overlaps, but. So where can people find you if they’re like, hey, this Gigi person is kind of awesome. How do I get more of Gigi in my life?

Gigi [00:45:20]:
Oh, my gosh.

Heather [00:45:21]:
Thanks.

Gigi [00:45:23]:
My website is just gigisovage.com, and there I have the cards. I have guided masturbation meditations. If you want to hear my voice, guide you to a nice orgasm. Fun.

Heather [00:45:34]:
Yeah, right?

Gigi [00:45:35]:
I love seeing who buys that one. Lol. When people think I can’t see, but it’s like, no, that information.

Heather [00:45:45]:
I know.

Gigi [00:45:47]:
So, yeah, Gigi Savage.com. You can find me on Instagram at Gigi Savage and on TikTok at Hitmy. Gigi squad.

Heather [00:45:54]:
Oh, that’s so cute. Okay, so we’ll link to all those.

Heather [00:45:57]:
In the show notes, too. But thank you so much for being here, Gigi.

Heather [00:46:00]:
This was awesome. Heather. Thank you.

Gigi [00:46:02]:
This was so fun.

Heather [00:46:04]:
Thank you.

Heather [00:46:05]:
All right, everyone listening, we’ll catch you next Monday.

Heather [00:46:07]:
Bye, y’all.

Heather [00:46:10]:
Thank you for listening to the Ask a sex therapist podcast. Got a question about spicing things up in the bedroom? Find the answers you’re looking for in my dirty talk guide, a free resource for my podcast listeners. Grab yours now at Heathershannon Co. Dirtytalk. Again, that’s Heathershannon Co. Dirtytalk. And be sure to tell your partner or friends because everyone has something they would like to ask the sex therapist.