This is the Ask a Sex Therapist podcast, helping you change the way you look at sex. I’m Heather Shannon, and in a world full of sexual censorship, I’ll give you the raw truth about pleasure, intimacy in your relationships, and enjoying your body. because it’s time for you to ask a sex therapist. Hey everybody, uh, we are here with an amazing guest episode this week.

We have Triad and True with us. So three people, thus Triad. Rachel, one of the Triad members and I met a year and a half ago or so on Bumble BFF when I was new to town. And I think you guys were pretty new to town too.

We had just moved here.

And then Erin and Casey are her partners. And so they have, um, at triad and true is their social handle.

They’re on tick talk. They’re on Instagram. They’re on Facebook. Uh, go follow them for some pretty fun and unique content. But I would love if you guys could kind of introduce yourselves a little bit and just kind of tell us a little bit about your relationship structure to kind of set the tone for today’s episode.

Yeah, absolutely. We’ll take a, take you back a couple of decades, but it won’t be a long story. Aaron and I actually met when we were 18 in college and followed sort of the typical relationship escalator, got married, thought we were going to have kids, live a life together monogamously, uh, that all sort of started to change partly because of my bisexuality and realizing that he’s a wonderful, lovely man, and he’s still just a man.

So it doesn’t help in the female, uh, arena. And we got into the swinging lifestyle as an opportunity to sort of explore that and, uh, achieve some of my own personal desires, but of course, you know, we’re for Aaron was always fun and lovely as well. And. At the time had not known anything about polyamory or the idea that you can actually build more deep, meaningful connections with people outside of these casual sort of one off experiences and had met some pretty cool triads and quads and other polycules along our journey and really, really started to talk and say, what if we actually connected with.

A single person, um, that would want to be part of a equitable triad dynamic. And we could still have a monogamish sort of life doing the stability of the commitment, living together, but get to know someone who’s also a female. And so hence we put together our Bumble dating profile and, uh, it was a match made in Bumble we say.

Yeah. At least from the couple’s perspective.

Yeah, I would love to hear, like, your journey, too, Casey.

Yeah. So, um, I, you know, was a single woman. I actually was kind of born and raised in the Bible Belt part of the country. Oh, wow. I’m from Missouri. And so, you know, I definitely always thought that I was gonna also grow up, get married to a man.

Mm hmm. Have kids. The whole shebang. And then You know, I, I was in some longterm relationships and things just didn’t feel great. And after one particularly stupid breakup, I was like, I’m going to look for ladies on dating apps. Um, at that point I was 25. I had never dated women. I still, you know, consider myself straight.

And I ended up actually, um, connecting with, uh, a couple. And. Was exploring my own bisexuality and, you know, kind of going through that journey and then kind of fell into and found the, um, you know, the swinging type of community. And I was interested in that because, you know, I knew I was comfortable with men.

I was getting comfortable with women and then I actually kind of fell into my first triad type of relationship. Um, and it was, you know, we were together for like six months and it was. Not great. It ended very badly. Um, and you know, it’s like you look back on it and you did all the things that you’re really not supposed to do.

There was no research. There was no like equitable type of considerations when I was in that relationship. And so It ended poorly, and I was like, I’m never doing this again, like, never doing Kali. Oh, yeah. I was like, not happening ever again. Okay. And then, um, you know, I kind of went back for a while and was doing just dating, kind of single people, kind of back to the monogamy track.

And then after a while, I Obviously came across Rachel and Erin’s profile, also on Bumble. Just saying, Bumble, like, you can reach out. We’re all success stories here.

Yeah, please sponsor us.

Bumble BFF, Bumble for Relationships, just saying. But I saw, um, Rachel and Erin’s profile and Irresistible. They were clearly

irresistible.

Yeah,

obviously. But it was, you know, they were really clear in their intentions of what they were looking for. And I did some self reflection on that and was like, you know, it wasn’t like, I feel like I could be successful in this type of relationship, even though it didn’t work out, um, the first time. And so, you know, we, we matched and we connected and we had lots of long conversations about Things and it was great.

So here we are.

Well, we were living out of the country at the time when we met her.

Yeah So tell us that part earrings. I know some of this backstory, but I think people would be like very intrigued with how this all came together

Yeah, it was a little different. So Rachel and I lived in Puerto Vallarta at the time we’ve been down in Mexico for a few years and just living a happy life and, you know, being at the beach and such.

And we were back in Colorado visiting family when we matched with Casey. So, um, we were in town for a few months and kind of had to figure out what we were going to do.

Yeah. Well, at that time we were only back in Colorado for about three weeks, four weeks. Yeah.

Look, this is what’s so wild to me. Like you didn’t live there.

You’re visiting for three weeks. Yeah. But it was a very life changing three weeks.

Yeah. Yeah. Basically, within 12 days, we said, well, we’re going to make this relationship work. We can’t do it internationally. And we were remote. We were mobile. And so we packed everything up. Invite us into, uh, Casey, what did you do to them?

Okay. And I will say at the time, I remember being like, Oh, listen, I think I’m pretty great, but I don’t know if I’m like, move countries. Great. Right.

After 12 days.

It worked out. And that was, that was actually a funny story too, because, you know, we knew, it was like, it was very like new relationship energy.

We were all very excited about things and they had come down ’cause So we lived in Colorado at the time I lived in Colorado Springs. Mm-hmm. Uh, they were visiting in Denver, so we were about an hour and a half apart Oh wow. Even from that standard. And they ended up coming down to Colorado Springs for the weekend.

And we’re at this little coffee shop. And I remember like, I was like, I think I’m just going to ask him to move in with me and it’s going to be great. And then we’re at this coffee shop. I go to the bathroom to like work up my courage to ask them to move in with me. And I come out and. They like have these like goofy grins and I was like, oh, what’s what’s up?

And Rachel said, you know, we were talking and I think that I think we should probably move in with you like I

was like, well, so so yeah, it’s like I did invite them to move in to my house. But it was kind of after being told, like, I think we should move into your house. Like, well,

I mean, because forget the triad thing, but just like to meet someone and feel that strongly so quickly, like what was it about each other that just like really clicked to the point that you were willing to take that leap?

I think it’s a great question. I think looking back on it, Probably a couple of things. First and foremost, values. I mean, from the moment we connected on Bumble, we had taken it offline. We connected on Facebook. She’s a previous journalist and reporter. So she had stuck the shit out of us. I had, I had done all the background

checks.

I am a really good internet stalker as well. Totally get it.

And we did our due diligence as best as we could on her, but we hadn’t into the deep questions within hours of connecting. Okay.

And I feel like

Rachel, we should add that you are also a therapist who focuses on relationships and especially poly relationships now. And I know from being a therapist, like we just like don’t do surface y stuff.

Right. No. And, and we were so intentional about what we were looking for, like either you’re in or you’re out.

Right. It was just an idea. Something we’re all really looking for. And it’s going to be alignment or not, because we had 20 years of a really good, awesome relationship that I wasn’t willing to just sort of compromise or, or settle for something that wasn’t that important. Right. But when we realized how quickly we aligned on all of these core values and then got together and then there was sexual chemistry and there was a connection.

Always. They connect on things that I had never really connected with Aaron on. Oh, interesting. He didn’t. I mean, it was just such a blend of interests and personality types that felt good from the get go all through ways that, you know, I think we also knew how hard this was and people say they are looking for years and years and years and for us to feel like something kind of fell on our laps.

I, I’m also a big manifestation person and I think we put it out there and the universe aligned us, but. That is so cool. And there was this legit pressure though, if it was going to work, we, we just sort of knew we had to make a commitment and we were leaving it was under this just.

And it was interesting too because, you know, it was like, okay, we’re going to move countries and they ended up going back to Paxfield for a couple months just to wrap things up.

And then they moved in, in like November, December of 2019. And then we’re very new in our living situation and whatever. And then, uh, We got very close very quickly because we obviously had to quarantine through. Oh, yes. Oh my God. Yeah, so that was, that was like three months essentially after they had moved in.

And, and then it’s like the borders shut down. So even if we broke up, like they couldn’t go back to Mexico. Look, you could not like

write this. Like, it’s just, it is a wild story on so many levels. Cause yeah, it’s like just moving in with someone who you’ve met pretty recently. It’s like, there’s a lot to kind of like, figure out in terms of like habits and routines.

And then I don’t even know like what, how big of a space you had, Casey, like to fit like two extra adults.

It was a one person and one dog home. So it was like a thousand square feet townhome, two bedroom. So it was, uh, and then obviously like we were all. Working from home at that time, too.

Oh, my God.

And so, I mean, I was, I was in an office.

And so, Rachel and Erin were working from home in separate places in the house. And then we all were very

shoved in together. So,

yes,

I have conversations with clients all the time. Either why can’t you or how are you going to make it happen? You could go with all the reasons why this wouldn’t have worked out.

Or we said, how are we going to make it work? We bought a new house. That was number one. Okay. So we moved into a bigger space. That seems like a wise choice. Yeah, that

was,

yeah.

That was important, yeah. Yeah. And that was something, too, that, like, even going into that experience as a triad, like, we weren’t sure what that was gonna look like as far as, like, three owners of a house.

Yeah. Because we had, obviously, you know, they’d only ever bought houses. But the two of them that’s and it was funny those first mortgage papers. It’s like, oh, um, so yeah, you sign here and you sign here and then you can just like kind of like fit your signature down here at the bottom. They’re like,

we don’t know what to do with

you.

Yeah, definitely.

So, None of the letters from the mortgage company has room for three people. So it’s either like me and Casey or Casey and Rachel or like, they just can’t figure it out.

Yeah, which is interesting. I know Rachel, you and I have talked about just like when you’re filling out forms or like emergency contacts, like things, things are just really designed for like monogamous couples in this world.

So what is that like? And how does that sort of impact you guys?

I think we have fun with it. Like, so when we bought our new house, we had to call the water company to switch over the account. So I’m on the phone and I have it on speaker phone. May have been Friday afternoon during happy hour or whatever, but yeah.

So they’re like, okay, who would you like to put on the account? So Rachel, I’d give my information. What’s her relationship spouse. partner, I think I said, and they’re like, would you like to put anyone else on the, on the account? Yes. Casey and Gail. Information. What’s, what’s your relationship? Spouse, like,

yeah, like partner and it’s, they got

quiet like

It’s, and it’s funny too, ’cause in those situations I feel like people just don’t ask questions. They’re like

Really?

Okay. Or it’s like, oh, partner, partner. And they just assume we’re like business partners who own house. Interesting. I think that’s what the way that one,

you know, they went back the recording to listen to it.

Yeah,

I mean, we, we make light of it. We understand that we’re just ahead of times when it comes to society, sort of rules, expectations, norms, whatever it may be. And it is another indication though, that there is an imbalance as much as we try to create equity or try to make it, there’s things that are stopping us.

And, um, we do the best that we can to try to mix it up or create, you know, she’s my emergency, emergency contact on some medical form and he might be on another, that makes sense.

Yeah. Aaron co owns one of the cars with me, they own the other car, or, yeah, it’s, it’s interesting. Taxes are

fun. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and that’s the thing. I, I obviously file as single and they file jointly, so that’s, but then we own the house together. Two houses. Two houses together. So it’s like, try, like, our accountant, the first conversation we, we had with him about all this. Yeah. What?

Yeah, like trying to find an accountant would be interesting.

Oh, yeah.

He’s

great.

Okay. Good. So you found a good one.

He just takes it all and he figures it out.

Cool. That’s all you need. So let’s talk a little bit about couple’s privilege. Rachel, I know that’s something you’re like hyper aware of and have talked a lot about, um, I think publicly as well, but one of the questions, so mentioned to this before we hit record, but I post on Instagram, I’m going to be interviewing this amazing triad, uh, relationship structure.

What questions do you guys have? And like within an hour, like eight questions came in and I was like, okay, wow, people are really excited about this. But one of the things someone asked was about kind of like, is there sort of like a mean couple and like an extra person or is it like an equal triad? And so I know the answer to this, obviously, but How do you answer that?

And like, how have you, you know, worked towards your structure?

Yeah, this was something getting into this dynamic. We had read a lot about and a lot about unicorn hunting and how to do triads. Well, so much fear around doing that, doing triads wrong. And there’s a lot out there on everything not to do. Um, But I also felt very strongly that there is a way that you could probably make this done right.

And we had seen several examples. And so I didn’t get too invested in all the people telling me not to do it, but took really good. I guess takeaways or information on how to think that we were doing it in the best way possible. Still a lot of lessons learned, but from the very beginning, Aaron and I had conversations of recognizing that if we’re really going to invite someone to join together, it’s not adding a third, which is inherently going to already create a hierarchy that there.

So even before meeting Casey, even before meeting Casey, how are we going to demonstrate that we are three separate individuals coming together to now create a brand new three way relationship? That’s not going to. Dismiss or take away that we have our diet relationship of 20 years, that’s, you can’t change that, but we have a brand new relationship and they have a brand new.

And then obviously all 3 of us together brand new. So that’s all from the beginning to get go to establish. I think even as silly as our schedules, we used to get up at 4 30 in the morning and go to the gym every. Morning early and she’s not a morning person and so to renegotiate what time we go to the gym or I feel you Casey Snuggle mornings are just as important or how much we balance healthy kale eating food with Ordering pizza.

I mean, everything from what was our life became what is our three way now life and renegotiating, but there were situations that didn’t go so great. Um, early on in the relationship, the, and those were trivial things that we’re talking about, but obviously we’re just talking about how we. Purchase houses together and how we do things to try to bring as much equity into the relationship, but early on when we weren’t out, we weren’t fully had disclosed our relationship to everyone.

We actually went to a wedding of. Someone that Casey was friends with that we were going as, as her roommates, ultimately friends of Casey’s who were in a marriage together, but we acted like that, we acted by holding hands together or being able to kiss and she couldn’t engage with either one of us or all together.

And it’s just second nature. It’s just how we showed up as the couple of friends. Right. But how that made her feel was. So sad and ended up just bringing, I think, awareness and attention to all the little things and nuances that you don’t even recognize could be inherently. Yeah.

And like in my previous relationship, uh, it was also with a married couple and like there were things like I never slept in the middle or I didn’t sit in the front seat and like things like that.

And it was, yeah, it was wild. And it was like very much like, Oh, like, you know, This is our marriage and you’re like a guest that’s really how it felt. Okay. And so like I said, it’s we’ve learned a lot. Yeah, a long way, but it’s yeah, thinking back on that. And so I also think that, you know, because of that, like, I was pretty hyper aware of some of those things.

But at the same time, like Rachel and Aaron were always super receptive to Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hearing me out whenever I had some like insecurities around some things like that, and they did a really good job at just like, you know, altering or reassuring or whatever really needed to happen for us to get into a good place.

And, and, and then I think after we came out, it really, and it wasn’t immediate, like we were pretty here. Yeah. Yeah. Like we didn’t tell anyone, um, for a year, they were the best roommates ever. We just like bought a whole house together. So no big deal. Um, yeah, it was great. Um, and so, but I feel like once we came out and we’re, you know, fully open, a lot of that goes away whenever everyone’s pretty aware.

And so, you know, it’s. I think it kind of writes itself, but it’s not something that is, you know, kind of instantaneous. If you’re intentional about

that. I work with a lot of people that don’t want that and they absolutely want to maintain a primary relationship and they want to have that privilege. And I don’t think that’s inherently wrong either, as long as it’s communicated and everyone going into it knows that you’re coming and being a part of in whatever capacity they’re able to give, willing to give, wanting to want just to have some play experiences or have something that’s.

Casual or a comment partner that comes and goes, there’s a place for that for all kinds of people. You just have to be very honest and open about what everyone’s looking for.

I think that’s really important and I love, um, how clear you guys were in your profile looking for a third partner. And that you had those discussions with each other ahead of time that like, we’re going to really have to let go of like our existing relationship in some way.

So I’d love to kind of hear like, what was that like for you to Rachel and Aaron to kind of like, let go of like, we’re a monogamous hetero presenting couple and in being this very different structure and like, was that hard to let go of any of that?

No, I mean, I don’t think so. It’s like, I feel like smaller things have changed in life, right?

Like eat pizza a little bit more, get up a little bit later, stuff like that. He’s avoiding the depth of the question.

I think he is. Let’s go to the therapist.

What say

you, doctor?

I I think it was, and I think sometimes I still actually struggle with it. And I actually wrote an article not too long ago, even after our ceremonies and that we’re going four and a half years in the relationship by the time we did this commitment ceremony wedding to really,

which I want to hear more about that too.

Societal expectations is the pinnacle, right? Of, of showing demonstration or demonstrating and showing commitment above. And even after that to say, now I have a wife.

Yeah,

I have a husband. I’ve always had a husband that came so easily. So, and actually after my first wedding in 2006, and then anticipating going into it, having been in this relationship for four and a half years, and now I have a wife inherently, it’s just still awkward.

It’s those deeply ingrained beliefs that I’ve always been told or taught to believe, how can I have two spouses? I understand we’re not doing anything illegal. We’re not fully domesticized. You can’t be legally married to two people, but we’re, we’re trying to change that and ultimately I would have, right.

And it’s scary. I mean, I think being part of that mindset is understanding that you are sort of disentangling or we’re not doing like unconscious uncoupling because we are a couple that, but, but we are separate enough to know that anything could happen and we have intentions of none of us going anywhere only this intention of building a relationship, but who knows if I would have Somehow been affected and not wanted this anymore.

He or she any right. And so I think there’s a there’s a lot of fear and there’s a lot of what is and a lot of what does that mean? And I think the inherent nature of what we had is a hetero not heteronormative and on this couple. Has changed and we don’t have the same space to just be us and do what we did as two people because there’s now three of us and so it’s like grieving and mourning maybe the loss of what was but also recognizing what has been gained value and just it’s a new story in the adventure.

I think it’s brave because it’s, it’s like you are leaving kind of the known for the unknown. And obviously it’s worked out pretty well so far. So that’s awesome. Tell us about, because again, I kind of know the background of this stuff, but tell us about proposing again, again for you, Erin, I guess.

Well, there’s, there’s two of them, unbeknownst.

So for me, I thought it was, it was really entertaining and fun. Um, the first one I was young, it was super nervous, you know, it was kind of one of those things went through the whole rigmarole, if you will. You’re talking about just me. Just the Rachel. Yes. Yeah. The first one. So, you know, we got married when we were 25.

The second one, I mean, I thought it was fun. We did a escape room and, you know, Casey had no idea and the ring popped out as part of the last clue at the very end. But for me, what was super entertaining also was watching Rachel go through it because she was so nervous. Oh,

because you never proposed before Rachel.

So that’s kind of cool.

Right. So Aaron and I did this together. Yeah. And I love

that. I’m a veteran. Like, you know, I’ve done this before. So

you’re like, let me help you, honey. Here’s how you do it.

She did an amazing job.

Yeah. But it was something that I always actually had an interest in and even going back to Days when Aaron had proposed to me, I was like, why is that something that the guy has to do?

Why is this such an arm? Even from that time, I remember thinking, why couldn’t I have been the one to do it? Absolutely. And I did, and I enjoyed the proposal, but I was super excited to be able to be on the other side of that this time around. That’s I got to do with Aaron for Casey. And then we got to do it to him.

Oh, really? Yeah. As we said,

everyone should

get a proposal.

It was, um, last October. So we were, was it October, September, September, it was a couple of months until we were actually like, we had the whole ceremony planned and whatever. But we were having the conversation, Rachel and I, and we were like, Wouldn’t it be cool if, like, we proposed to Aaron?

Because he’s the only one who hasn’t, like, gotten an official proposal. It’s so cute. Yeah, and so we were in Colorado visiting, um, family and, uh, actually attending another friend of ours wedding. And Rachel and I, you know, we were like, Oh, we should go back to, like, The first restaurant where we met, that’s, obviously we told Aaron, we were like, I was like, oh, I have this great idea, like, let’s just go do this because we haven’t done that, you know, we haven’t ever been back.

And so, you know, Aaron had no idea that we were going back there. And then, you know, Rachel, we had gotten rings. We have his formal ring and his, um, party ring. So we, but we both, but we both had a ring and, and we did the whole thing where we. Where we also got down on our knees on the street. I don’t think many people have seen two girls get down on their knees

in front of a guy.

This is a very unique scenario.

Yup. Got a lot of looks. There’s, I would say there’s a lot of jokes behind that one, but

we digress.

We can see where you’re going, Kasey. You know, but it’s a sex

show. It’s fine. It was great.

It was really cute and I think he was really surprised and It was, it was a fun thing to like Rachel and I are like practicing our lines and stuff.

Like, it was fun.

Just came full circle. We all, we all got, you know,

I know. I love that too. And Casey, were you surprised when they proposed to you?

Oh yeah. So, and that’s actually Funny. So the proposal, because I, I was always like, Oh, if they propose, like, I’m going to know it’s coming because in no universe, am I going to, am I going to like be like tricked into like getting my nails done or like dressing up for whatever, like, I was like, I’m 100 percent going to know that this is a thing.

Um, and the way that they did it, I don’t even like. It was so it was the day before Rachel’s birthday. Okay. And so we were going to this escape room for Rachel’s birthday. This is ideal. Like the week before Rachel’s like, Oh, I want to get my nails done for my birthday. Oh, would you like to come? And obviously like I have fomo and I’m like, of course I wanna get my nails done.

Birthday, yes, obviously. Oh, and then we go to this escape room, we have our friends there and whatever. And I’m like, oh yeah, but it’s Rachel’s birthday, so like this is great.

Yeah.

And then like at the end and I was like, no, no universe that I see it coming in. The drawer pops out. Oh, yeah.

Finally. I can tell.

She, like, really wanted to see it coming, in a way.

I’m like, I’m ready to do this escape room, like, we’re gonna kill it. We get to this last clue, and I’m, like, standing there with these, like, pliers to, like, cut the wire or whatever to, like, make the drawer pop out, and I’m like, oh, like, does anyone else want to do it?

And they’re like, no, you do it. And so I did it, and it pops out, and I’m like, I, like, look around, I, like, grab the box, and I’m like, what the hell is, and I, like, move it. You

took it out of the way. Oh, my God.

Yeah, and I’m like, here’s the key, go open the room. And they’re like, I won the escape room, everyone!

Hundred percent. And I, and I turn around and there’s like a camera and lights and I’m like, it’s not that serious, like, it’s just an escape room, guys, like, go open it. And then the whole thing. I almost opened, and then I was like, what? And I opened the, almost opened the box and Rachel like snatched it from me and was like, Oh god, this is hilarious.

Here we go. And so Yeah, and then they, they got down on their knees and it was so sweet and they said very beautiful words. I’m glad we had the recording of it because I never would have, I was like in such shock and like, I can see just

blacking out, yeah.

Oh yeah, I don’t, I don’t remember anything. But it was.

It was awesome. They did a really good job.

I have to say, and I know your relationship isn’t perfect. Like you guys just seem like very exemplary though, in terms of like the communication and the intentionality and just, you know, the clarity of your, you know, what you’re wanting to create together. So I just want to say that.

We have the cheat code, though. We do have the therapist that lives in the house.

I know. But like, even though we are amazing and therapists, it’s like, we’re still human.

We are. But I will attribute, and I tell my clients all of the time, we did weekly book clubs. We literally created intentional time for relationship check ins, for conversations, that we would come back.

We actually had action items and follow ups, what we were working on, dyads, all three of us together. From the very beginning, we started the separate Like two off dates to create and foster. Yeah. I want to hear about that too. Yeah. And all these things that I think, even though it was hard, even though it was challenging have led to us having the type of relationship and communication that we do now.

Yeah. Like all three of you were like committed to the process.

Yeah. And when you have all the time on your hand, COVID, you have the time to do it. That’s

true.

It really benefited us.

But

yeah, we, we do, we, we look at it as all four relationships. And so having. Basically every week we rotate. So last night was Casey and Aaron’s date night.

Next week will be mine and Aaron’s. After that will be Casey and I. And every week we are very intentional about making sure to at least carve out that space. Because we all do work from home. We are always all together. Um,

but then we have the

triad dates as well. And recognize that that’s unique and different and separate.

And things that happen just organically here and there in my life, but yeah.

And we’ve come to each enjoy our alone time, too, when you’re with three people. You, you get to go do the things you want to do that, you know, movies that other people don’t want to watch or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

That’s

right.

I got to benefit.

Yeah. Um, that’s a good point. You’d have less alone time with two partners all living in the same house. Definitely. Yeah. Okay. So you just kind of explain even more how intentional you guys are. Um, what’s the balance of sort of like the, the triad, the three of you all together versus like the dyad relationships?

I think, I mean, to that point, it’s, it’s definitely more of the three of us simply because of the amount of time that we spend together. Um, we. It was actually interesting, just last month had three separate, uh, work trips, work trips. Thank you for vacation. So Casey left for a week and then Aaron left for a week and then I left for a week.

And so we had a lot of served diet two off times. That was really nice. And we appreciated that. I think we’re going to start to create actually weekend getaways or maybe other types of longer overnights rather than just our. Sort of Tuesday, three hour date nights that we do right now because it is important, but it’s harder to find that time spontaneously.

That makes sense. It’s not that we can’t or don’t want to or have rules around it as much as it just happens to be the three of us more regularly. Which

seems nice, but, but I can see the desire for like more emotional intimacy just in the one on one time too.

Yeah. And there are definitely things that like we do connect on in a two off.

Like. You know, Rachel and I will go to yoga classes together or like do upcomes on Kuzumba, and like Aaron and I are big football fans that Rachel could not give two shits about. I’m

with Rachel on that one. I’m like, sports ball what?

Yeah. Fall is not Rachel’s favorite time, but Aaron and I are like big into it.

So Rachel and I can get more ice cream in the fall.

But yeah, so we definitely, and like, you know, there, there are nights that they cook things that I’m like, I’m going to be over here, not partaking in any of that. So like, we definitely have like those two off things that are very unique to each of our relationships.

Yeah. It is nice.

I think it’s part of what works really well in our dynamic, too, is Rachel and I are very different in a lot of ways, and I mean, everybody is, but also Casey, I think, is kind of like an in between, right? Like, likes the sports side of things, likes the rom com side of things. I

wouldn’t argue that about all of us.

All of us. Yeah. In a lot of different

ways, but it all fits really well together. I

can kind of see that about all three of you. Yeah. Like,

if Casey hated sports and all the things that, like, I enjoy, I And only like rom coms and like, like Rachel, like, it’d be like, what are we watching? It’d be lopsided.

Yeah. Yeah. I’d be watching a lot of rom coms.

Yeah. Okay. So one of the questions that I got from my Instagram people are, uh, do you have more threesomes or twosomes when it comes to the bedroom?

Pretty much. Well, probably more three. It’s a good question. Probably more three. Like.

More three.

Yeah. Three. For every, like, one, three.

There’s probably like one, two, but not everyone’s involved in that, so. Two

thirds to one

third.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. So there’s, there’s a balance. I think to, to that point around the dates, only because it’s. That makes sense. It just happens to be us. One of the questions we get often is like, Even if all three of us are here, yeah, due to have experiences together, right?

And it always is available. It’s an option. None of us are going to stop or prohibit that. I think it either turns into a FOMO situation, but even if it starts, we always are welcoming. Anyone can participate. Anyone can initiate or start. Okay. Or because. We just live in, in a small house and I think we’re all sort of genuinely caring and concerning about everyone’s feelings and needs that it just doesn’t happen as organically.

I could see that. That’s why we create the space to allow it because it is different.

So it’s more like if two people are like, Hey, we’re kind of in the mood, let’s go get it on. You usually kind of like invite the third person. For sure. But then they might be like, I’m just not feeling it. Do you ever say like, I’m just not feeling it today.

You guys go have fun. So, yes.

I’m like, I’m going to sleep. Thank you. Goodbye.

Like, have a great time. Yeah.

Or

I’ll be like a support staff. I’d be a fluffer. I’m over here. I’m here for emotional support. That’s so cute. But it all boils down to communication and consent and being totally okay saying no, not tonight or not today, or this is what I can do or want to do or don’t want to do and all of us respecting boundaries and appreciating that.

So, I mean, you’re not sounding very jealous, like, it’s just sounding very balanced, but like, jealousy has to come up sometimes, right? Like, when does it come up? Do you all have different triggers? How do you manage that? I feel like

I keep talking over your head and everything. It’s just No, keep going.

I mean, I feel like, so especially now, we are four and a half years into it, so like, I feel like jealousy is definitely Really not something that we experience as much anymore.

Okay, cool.

Minus maybe like some one off like if someone’s out of town and like the other two people are like at a beer festival or something and that’s like exciting. Like it is FOMO I would say definitely more than like jealousy.

Okay.

You know early on I think that you definitely kind of have. Those feelings of jealousy.

Again, it’s like, it’s a lot of it is just the FOMO, like, oh, they’re doing this together and yeah, whatever. And like, I’m left out or, you know, whatever kind of feelings arise. But I think that we even really early on, we did a really good job at reassurance, addressing things like when people were feeling insecure, or like, You know, that air of jealousy, I think that we were good about just facing things head on.

And I feel like the more you talk through those things, it’s way less like the big scaries of like, Oh, well, they’re falling in love and they’re going to run off together without me. Like, it’s not quite so like this big mountain of like jealousy. It’s like, you kind of chip away at it. And as you normalize talking about those things and those feelings, like, you know, at this point it’s just like, Have fun.

I’m going to go hang out by myself.

It’s like so secure. That’s amazing.

Yeah. And, and that’s the thing. It’s, there’s nothing to be afraid about. And this is, again, one of the biggest questions we always get asked where people will say I couldn’t do non monogamy because I’m too jealous. But when you just.

It’s not that your car is broken. It’s not that it’s all going to crumble and break down. But you do have to address that. Otherwise, you might end up in that consequence. Right?

I love that perspective. The jealousy is an indicator light. I’m going to steal that. Thank you. Totally.

It’s coming out in my course, by the way.

Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. But it is. And then at the root, is it insecurity? Is it a fear? Is it a, is it In the more of a FOMO situation, that’s actually not, is it a threat? Is it perceived or is it real? And then addressing it, calling it to attention, communicate about it. Is it something that you need to do your own self work and provide your own self assurance?

This is a co regulation situation where people can support for you. Do we need to change our boundaries and agreements? I mean, it’s just getting curious. And then figuring out what to do with

it. Yeah, that totally makes sense to me. I’d love to also hear from all three of you on like, what do you feel like are the biggest pros and cons of being in a three person relationship?

You want me to start?

Yeah, let’s go, Aaron.

Okay. Uh, the biggest pros is, Triple income. I mean, that’s, that’s a nice,

that’s real nice.

No triple income, no kids.

You know, you hear about dinks, dual income, no children, you’re a dink.

So that’s certainly a positive. Just a much broader range of things and interests.

We always kind of say it’s always a party, right? Like, you know, things are never dull because there’s Casey brings things to the table, Rachel brings things to the table, different perspectives, different things to do. Um, I think that I’ve become a better person for it as well through the communication, through a lot of, a lot of these things as well, so I think that’s, that’s certainly a positive.

Um, the negative, there’s a lot of estrogen in this house, we have a female dog too.

Aaron’s the most patient man.

It takes us so long to leave the house. I’m just sitting there ready.

That actually is true, though. He takes naps and we’re like, we’re almost ready and he’s like, Oh my God,

you’re like, okay, that means I have another half hour.

Let’s go to sleep. Okay. That’s, that’s pretty cool. I love what you said about it. Just like making a better person. That’s amazing. Um, like, are there any ways in particular that you feel like it’s kind of challenged you to grow?

Communication. I mean, that’s never been my strong suit, so I think learning to communicate and communicate effectively.

Because communicating and communicating effectively are two different, different things, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I think that, you know, that’s probably done a lot. Patience. I’ve always been a pretty patient person, but I think I’ve worked on that piece of it

even more.

Even more.

Yeah. That’s so cool.

Well, and one thing about the communication part and kind of like one of those things that I think that we’ve always kind of joked about is the, we call it the asshole test

and,

um, you know, in a three person, we’ll say in a two person relationship, if you’re having a disagreement, it’s like me versus you, I’m right, you’re wrong, right?

Like it’s one or the other. Um, when you’re in a three person relationship, you really can’t, like, get away with being an asshole for no reason. Like, you have another person, so it’s not just me versus you now, it’s like, and we don’t gang up on people, right? But it is like, you sometimes You do have like two people where you’re like, no, no, like you’re the one being the asshole and then like you have to eat your humble pie and be like, yeah, that’s me.

And so I do think it just makes us better people because you’re kind of held to a higher level of accountability when you’re, you have two partners. Like, you can’t just be like, I’m just going to be a jerk for no reason, because whatever, like, yeah,

it’s like if they’re both. Giving you the same feedback.

It’s like, maybe it’s true.

You’re like, yeah. Maybe I didn’t mean to

talk about this in therapy. Yeah, and it may even, because I don’t think any of us are inherently jerks, or like, try to be a jerk. Oh yeah, I know, for sure. But there are times, and I remember, yeah, in a two person relationship with Erin, that you just, you feel so strongly about something, and you try to convince or persuade, and even with our best Listening skills and trying to do things at the end of the day, sometimes it’s just agree to disagree, but then it really, it does at least bring an additional perspective that sometimes does align with one of the others and helps you just kind of check yourself and say, okay, maybe there is an opportunity for me to do some introspection, self reflection, really, where am I hiding behind my own insecurities or fears?

And this is an opportunity to grow and sometimes you’re just an asshole too, and that’s okay. I guess we’re all human, but. Yes,

I mean, we’re all assholes sometimes, I think. So I just own it sometimes. Okay. So who wanted to go next with the pros and cons? Casey, you kind of started getting into it a little bit.

I mean, yeah, the pros definitely that Aaron brought up. Those are, those are all amazing. It’s always nice because you do always have, you know, someone around to talk to or hang out with, or, you know, rely on, um, I do think it just like fundamentally being in this type of relationship, it makes you a better person, I would say, you know, some of the cons that.

I personally am aware of is just like things like I probably won’t ever be legally married or, you know, filing jointly for taxes, which doesn’t sound that fun, but like, you know, whatever. It does not sound

sexy. I’ll say that.

Yeah. Those things. And, um, I would also say, even though we are very open and we’re out and like everyone kind of knows.

our story and whatever and we don’t hide it. No. There are definitely still, um, situations that come up that you really can’t be as transparent. Like, you know, if I’m at a work conference or something, it’s like, yeah, I could talk about, oh yeah, my husband and I watched this football game and my wife was, you know, cooking dinner or something like, it’s like, you definitely don’t share as much about the things that maybe come naturally to people in a monogamous relationship.

Because It’s like you, at that point you make a decision where you’re like, okay, am I going to just like spill the beans and talk about it like a regular person and then obviously open myself up to answering typically a ton of questions about this, which, and you know, but like if you’re at a work thing, like you don’t necessarily want to have those conversations.

You’re like, I don’t

want to do an hour long interview right

now. And then it’s like, you know, the alternative is like, cool, I’m just not going to like share anything about my personal life. So I definitely think that that’s. You know, uh, a harder thing in some, some regards, but I mean, truly the, the pros.

Obviously far outweigh and, you know, doing, um, education and awareness type of things, like the podcast and all this, like I know, I love that it’s, you guys are like, yeah. It’s just like you normalize it and then you don’t have to feel weird about talking about it.

Mm-hmm . It’s true. And I, I feel passionate about that too.

Um, you know, Rachel, you mentioned the relationship escalator earlier. You know, for people listening who are like, what’s that? It’s just like this idea that, you know, there’s a preset sort of social script of like this is how relationships progress and, you know, you date and it’s monogamous and it’s a man and a woman and then you, you know.

Go on to be committed and engaged and married and have children and a dog and a picket fence in the suburbs, you know. Um, and so any of us who have deviated in any way I think kind of feel that sometimes. But, um, it’s, it’s very exciting to me that people are starting to become more intentional and conscious.

Whether it’s an open relationship. You know, we also didn’t get into this yet, but kind of closed polyamory versus open polyamory and hierarchical polyamory versus, you know, kind of, and even just

intentional monogamy. Intentional 100 percent for a lot of people. Just be clear that you’re doing it for your reasons, not because that’s what you’re expecting.

Yeah, absolutely. And I, I think that there’s so much monogamous people can learn about the intentionality. Like I was just interviewed for an article about. Sex addiction and kind of porn and how that fits in and is porn cheating and it’s like and my answer was like monogamous people rarely define this Like what is our agreement, you know?

And so I think that’s a huge takeaway that monogamous folks can become more intentional about like what is our agreement? What is cheating? What is not, you know?

Yeah, and we joke about like, if monogamous couples communicated and put in the effort that we have in our triad relationship, like, divorce rates would plummet, we would fix the world, there’d be no war, like, that’s it.

That’s it. That’s the hill I die on. I mean, maybe not.

Honestly. Everyone would be too busy being happy. They wouldn’t have to worry about fighting. That’s

kind of my thought, you know? It’s like if you have that much love and affection and security, it’s like really, you know, lifting you up to be your best self in the world, but that doesn’t get created by accident.

100%.

Yeah. And everything you guys do is like what I prescribe to my monogamous couples, too. You know, um, cause it works.

It’s healthy. Maybe you should talk to each other, like, at novel.

I know. Right. Like, make quality time. Okay, so another question that came in for you guys, and I think I know the answer to this one cause I’ve seen your social media, is housework easier with three adults?

100%.

Well, no, technically 50 percent since there’s an extra person. This man works last

minute. 50%. Aaron’s the math nerd. I

am. I am.

I’m with you on that. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s like, it is actually easier.

Well, yes and no, we got called out on our Tik Tok because we made a video about this. And we think it is and ultimately most things that you just generally clean the house, you have an extra person who’s going to help and get these things done.

However, you have additional laundry, you have additional dishes, you have additional things. So people are like, but is it really? We still think it’s much faster, much easier.

Listen, we have a finite amount of toilets. And when you have an extra person to help with that, that’s true. Yeah.

Yeah. So it’s finite.

And it’s more fun. And

we’ve really delineated who does what and we just get in, get out, get it done on a race. Sounds so good. Sunday or Sunday.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right. Well, maybe one day I’ll be in a triad sounding. You’re making it sound pretty good to me. So, um, all right, well, any last kind of parting words and Rachel, tell us about kind of like what you offer for people who are in kind of unique, I know you kind of specialize a little bit in triads as well, but kind of all polyamory, um, so tell us what you offer and where people can find you.

Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. For me personally, um, my handle is at Dr. Rachel Mayer Coaching. We have a link to all of this. Yes. It’s a little bit long, but I specifically help people in all kinds of non monogamous relationships. And it can be any sort of form, fashion, dynamic. Um, and it doesn’t even have to be polyamory or non monogamy.

If you’re a couple or an individual just curious, excited to learn more, helping people basically explore the space without. I say the fear of judgment, jealousy, or damage relationships, because so many people go into it blind and fumble around and then get hurt really badly. So if I can help set you up for success, or you’ve had some failed relationships, but want to give it another shot, that’s sort of what I’m here to do anywhere around the world.

Oh, I love that. And then the three of us are, like you mentioned, at Triad and True, and we sort of just demonstrate and show people our lived life, in real life, what we do, the things that we face, interact, questions we get, have some fun with it.

Mm hmm. And you guys have like very cute, entertaining content, so.

I highly recommend that we try. And I also know since we had ice cream last week that you’re working on a course. So we’ll have to keep people posted and they like join your email list to stay tuned for that.

Please do. Yep. It’s another long one. Rachel at Dr. Rachel Mayer dot com, but we can put it in the links and that would be awesome.

We will link to all of this again. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Thank you guys all so much for being here. This is a really just like fun, um, I feel like heartwarming. Maybe, maybe people don’t think of triad relationships as just wholesome and heartwarming, but I do. So I hope, I think you’ve probably reframed that for a lot of people today.

So thank you guys for being here.

Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate you having us. Thank you. Thank you for the work that you do.

All right. Thank you everybody for listening. We’ll catch you next Monday with another episode of Ask a Sex Therapist. Bye for now. Thank you for listening to the Ask a Sex Therapist podcast.

Got a question about spicing things up in the bedroom? Find the answers you’re looking for in my Dirty Talk guide, a free resource for my podcast listeners. Grab yours now at heathershannon. co forward slash dirty talk. Again, that’s heathershannon. co forward slash dirty talk and be sure to tell your partner or friends because everyone has something they would like to ask a sex therapist.