This is the Ask a Sex Therapist podcast, helping you change the way you look at sex. I’m Heather Shannon, and in a world full of sexual censorship, I’ll give you the raw truth about pleasure, intimacy in your relationships, and enjoying your body.

Because it’s time for you to Ask a Sex Therapist.

Hey everybody, welcome to another Ask a Sex Therapist episode. Today, we have a wonderful guest who has just written a book and we’re going to talk to you guys all about it. So Todd Barrett is a renowned psychotherapist and sex therapist whose innovative approach to mental health and relationships has established him as a leading figure in his field.

In addition to his clinical practice, Barrett is a prolific writer and speaker. His insights are regularly featured in various media outlets where he discusses topics ranging from romantic relationships to individual mental wellness. He lives in New York city and Los Angeles. Learn more on Instagram under his handle at your diagnosis.

Welcome, Todd. How you doing?

Hi, that’s me. I’m good. I love your handle. How are you? Yeah. How

did you come up with your diagnosis? That’s pretty fun.

That’s from Girl Interrupted.

And Angelina

Jolie says to Brittany Murphy, what’s your diagnosis?

Oh, I love that. I think I just appreciate the irreverence as a fellow

therapist

and sex therapist.

Yeah. How do you feel about diagnosing in general?

Well, I don’t diagnose any of the clients that I see. It’s not helpful for my work and what I do with them. So, it’s not helpful for me. Diagnoses, you know, they’re political, they’re financial, they’re philosophy. I mean, there’s so much that goes into a diagnosis, so I don’t really do that.

I could say I hate them, but I don’t hate them. I mean, they’re a way in which we think about mental health and mental illness. It’s just never been something that I’ve used in my clinical work or really anywhere else.

That’s part of why I’ve moved more towards coaching. So my private practice is, is coaching because I don’t hate diagnoses either.

I look at it more as like a pattern. What are the patterns? Is this helpful ones in terms of identifying a pattern or is this just like pathologizing? And everyone’s different. Some of my clients like to have a label and I’m like, cool, you do you, some of them don’t. You just wrote a book. That’s kind of exciting.

Yeah, so I have it here.

Here

we go.

I accidentally dipped into the pool. How to love someone without losing your mind. Ooh, that sounds nice. Pool.

Yes, it’s nice to have a pool. I fully support

that. Put it in the pool, put yourself in the pool. Yeah. So it’s

already like warped. So I probably have like the first worn in copy of your book within like the week of ordering it.

Awesome. Thank you for supporting me and ordering it. Absolutely.

So yeah. What made you decide to write a book?

I mean, so many things I like to, I love to write and I’ve been doing a lot of writing for Instagram and I’ve always wanted to write a book. I mean, the idea and the reason behind the book was I’ve been in therapy my whole life, started therapy at 10, so it’s been 27 years.

You know, my therapist literally saved my life, Derek, I talk about this in the book. It’s a main story that I the

book. Yeah. Like, it sounds like such a really big part of the story.

It has been unique, and you know, he’s almost like a father to me, and we, I saw him today, we had a great session, still processing it, need to stop fixating, but anyway, so I had been in therapy, and have been in therapy forever, been a therapist for like 13, 14 years, and been on Instagram, and I noticed that there are just Some similar themes that I was struggling with, my clients were struggling with, and people that I was hearing from on Instagram were struggling with.

So I was like, oh, this is a really great idea for a book. Also, I think it’s really important that people who work and heal and healing capacities with others and helping capacities with others share and discuss how they’ve helped and healed themselves.

So I

thought it was a really unique opportunity for me to share this unique relationship and how it intersected with some of my clinical, personal life, professional life, and Instagram life.

And so I wrote the book telling a story about me, telling a story about some clients, cases, couples, individuals from session, and then also what I hear from people and see online. So three stories, one overall story of what we experience in life and love. Yeah.

I, I like what you’re saying about you sharing your personal story and, and the importance of that.

I do feel like in general in our society, like experts and people with credentials kind of get put up on this pedestal, like we have everything figured out, which, so I love the idea of just you kind of humanizing yourself and sharing. And you also talk about like in your training and then in my training, for sure.

It’s, you know, you’re supposed to be like a blank slate or like, don’t self disclose too much to clients. So how did you find what works for you as a therapist and human?

Yeah, all therapists get the same training in that sense. You know, I don’t think there’s any program that’s like, disclose. I got that messaging from my program, you know, process why your client is sitting in the room, process why they’re late, process why they are asking you personal questions, process it all.

I do process things with my clients, obviously, but in terms of disclosure, being on Instagram, being myself. I’ve just always done that. When I was learning that stuff in school, I was like, okay, sure. And then I got to work in my own practice and I was like, you know, same, same. And that’s not to say that I’m talking about my mother and my father.

I’m cutting my clients off as they’re sharing their personal traumas. It’s just that I bring my whole self and at times I’ll, I’ll share a piece of myself. I mean, and I’m on Instagram and so I share quite a lot there. Sometimes I’m like, well, well, that’s too much. So I’m just, I just try to be very much the same person in every.

Wherever I am. I don’t know. It’s just always been a piece of who I am, but I know that it is

My therapist had always disclosed and it had always been really impactful and powerful for me Not I mean just in terms of him being a human being and so, you know I model a lot of what I do based on what I received As what I experienced as being helpful.

Yeah, and I love that. And I think that’s important for our field to at least have some different examples.

I’ve struggled with that idea too of like being a therapist, but also being a human because it sometimes feels like the rules or the guidance of being a therapist means like that’s supposed to come first before me just like being Heather or you being Todd and. That also doesn’t seem like a really healthy example for our clients.

Yeah, it’s an odd, it’s an odd, it’s an odd thing to expect somebody to be really vulnerable while being cold and withholding. Um, so I just try to be. So anyway,

so I appreciated that part too. What made you decide to become a therapist? I

mean, it’s the same answer for all of these questions, it’s kind of, my therapist, I mean, he literally saved my life, I had such a wonderful experience, and it’s not like then, I started seeing him at 15, and so it’s not like I was like, oh gee, at 15 I’m gonna become a therapist cause this has been so great so far, I, you know, like, when I say he saved my life I quite literally mean it, I didn’t think I was going to have a profession, so like, at the time I was in therapy, I’d also started reading philosophy and like, Psychology early on, and that was also coming from him, too.

Like, he would send me some articles, like, this is what’s happening in your family. You might want to read this, whatever. And in learning that information, you know, I had a panic disorder at the time, speaking of diagnosis. It’s not like it took my panic away, but I found solace in a lot of that information.

I found peace and being able to put a narrative to what I was experiencing internally and what I was observing in my family. And so that was like an intellectual curiosity. That I just kind of followed in college and then towards the end of college, I was like, Oh yeah, right. I do like, I have a future.

That’s right. I have to plan for that future. What do I want to do? And I had already, I, you know, I had been studying psychology and philosophy and anthropology and all this shit, but all of my friends were going to grad school for, to become a therapist. And I was like, I want to do that too. Obviously that’s like, duh.

And so then it was like, it dawned on me then, but it wasn’t like really until the third year of undergrad that I was like, I’m gonna be a therapist. You know, I hadn’t really thought that far in the future because I was still recovering from major traumas. But, you know, it was personal experience that turned to an intellectual curiosity that turned into further studying that turned into a goal.

Yeah. Okay. Let’s do this.

It’s been a journey.

The journey is never over.

It’s not over.

Um, actually that kind of reminds me of a question. I’m curious what you think about this. Sometimes I feel this way. I also hear this from my clients where it’s like, Oh my God, have I not finished addressing this yet in therapy?

Whether it’s like your issues with your parents or your attachment styles, you know, and I know you have some feelings about that. But is it okay? Can we be done now? Like, have I healed enough? You

know, I fucking wish. Um, I mean, I’m no longer like doing coke at seven in the morning and cutting myself. You know, I take really good fucking care of myself and I can regulate whatever, but my trauma is still part of me and are mine to manage and are triggered often in my relationships.

You know, when things surge or become really powerful, I, I say the same thing to my therapist. I thought I was done with those. Even still, and then I’m reminded, and I learn something new from it, and then I move on, and then it comes up again a year later, you know. It’s just, it’s ongoing, you know, depending on your experiences, depending on your traumas, you know, it’s kind of, this is just our thing in life to carry.

Yeah.

I think everybody has some version of that, but varying in intensities.

It’s also fascinating to me that, like, some people don’t work on healing, ever. Like, I don’t even get that.

So their denial is really powerful for some people. Yeah.

For I think most people. So you talked about the idea of not trying to like find ourselves, but becoming more of ourself.

And I would love to hear more about that. Like what is that becoming?

You know, I wrote that and I’ve been asked this question, and to be honest, I thought it sounded better. I thought it sounded better. I thought it was more congruent. I thought it was more congruent with the experience of, like, self discovery.

That, you know. It’s almost like someone’s like manifest in a relationship where you find a relationship. It was a nod to that, you know, that you more like build a relationship. You don’t just find one and it’s not like we find ourselves. We build and explore and discover and become ourselves. So on one hand, I just like the way it sounded better.

I thought it sounded better. And then on the other hand, it also. To me, it means more. It’s just a deeper, more complex understanding of who we are and who we are to become. Because so often, our self is framed as something we find, end of sentence period, done, great, you know? And that’s just not how it works.

You know, I could, Land on some grand insight today and like, I never realized that this is something I am and I’ve done and I need to work on and then next week I could be like, Oh my God. And then, you know, it’s like, yeah, it’s an ongoing process. And anyone who wants to convince themselves otherwise, you know, again, denial, emotional repression, all of those things.

But okay, I take it back. It’s not because it sounds better. It means more. It means more, it’s more real, it’s more realistic. We become ourselves every day, and for the rest of our lives, we don’t just find ourselves. But I guess you could say we find ourselves every day. I mean, I don’t know.

Yeah, you’re right.

It’s a little bit of like semantics. Yeah. But the becoming does sound better, I think. To me it sounds more like internal, it’s like this internal process where the finding sounds a little bit more like external, like.

It’s just a little bit more accurate to me.

Yeah. Like, I think about someone, like, going on a trip to find themselves or something.

Yeah. That’s what I did

and it didn’t work. I found myself for, like, three, three days and then I was back from Ibiza and I was like, where the fuck am I? I

was like,

I have to find myself all over again. Nothing

changed. You didn’t magically discover everything in Ibiza?

No. Okay. I did learn a lot though.

That’s true. I do

think we learn a lot from traveling. I’m a fan. Okay. All right. So. I also wanted to ask you about, okay, this one is actually very interesting to me. Like, you’re kind of pro clinging in relationships. Uh

huh. Is

that accurate? Yeah. Okay. Say

more about that. You’re looking at me. I mean, clinging, like catching feelings, being needy is this like social stigma that I just can’t seem to understand.

Don’t catch feelings. Don’t get attached. How not to. Yeah. When, like, if you want to be in a relationship. Part of being in a relationship is quite literally, and sometimes physically, clinging to another person. And if you can’t, that’s kind of a problem. You know, if being close, if being dependent gives you anxiety, that’s going to create issues in your life and in your relationships.

It’s not an all or nothing thing. It’s just my response to so much stigma and so much just shittiness around the value of Someone who has specific attachment needs around wanting to be close a lot, wanting attention, wanting to get affirmation, wanting to spend a lot of time together, wanting to get text messages, you know, wanting things that are relationally intimate and emotionally deeper is I think something that’s a strength that somehow has been reframed as a negative, how to train yourself not to be.

So I say, don’t stop being clingy, not in terms of that real dysregulated, anxious. That is a completely different story, which people often go to the extreme, which drives me insane. But I mean more so being attached, being vulnerable, deepening intimacy, and looking and participating in all of the behaviors in a consistent and frequent way that deepens intimacy.

It’s important. It’s a strength. We need it. Relationships thrive on it. So if anyone is listening and you think you’re clingy and it’s a bad thing, it’s not. It’s also something important to understand that the person doing the evaluating of us being clingy or needy is usually somebody who cannot fulfill those needs.

It’s usually somebody who struggles to Like

a hundred percent of the time.

Yeah, and it’s, it’s a, it’s a subjective, it’s a subjective experience. There’s no kind of factual basis for what cleaning means and where it’s bad. It’s really just a term used to, and about, used by people who can’t accept cleaning behavior from others.

Yeah, I remember in grad school, I had a therapist and I was like, I feel like I’m just too needy or I feel it. I forget what I said. And she was like, okay, what if you are? I was like, what?

Yeah.

Like, stop the process. Like, how can that possibly be? Okay. Because, you know, and that was a long time ago, but like.

Yeah, the messages are kind of loud and clear. It’s like, you should be kind of cool or almost like aloof and like mysterious.

No mystery. Oh my gosh. A fundamental part of all relationships is unknown. So it’s like the idea of creating mystery is wild to me because it’s like, there’s built in mystery. You don’t need any more.

Trust me.

I tend to agree with that, that there’s built in mystery. I think sometimes we forget that there’s built in mystery and like, When I see couples who have been together for like 10, 20 years, they think they know everything. Like, they don’t have conversations because they assume they know their partner’s answer.

And then they’ll have the conversation in session and they’re like, Oh, maybe I wasn’t totally right. But

I

mean, do you have any thoughts on that? Like, how do you? Almost like remind yourself that there is mystery when you’ve been with someone for a long time.

Well, when I say mystery, I don’t necessarily mean knowledge or specific information.

I mean, there’s a dynamic with two individuals with two separate histories, likely with two separate traumas. Then there’s that dynamic when they come together and Can we be sure a person A or person B’s motivations, true, unconscious, anything we don’t, you know, there is a wild card in all of our relationships that’s trying to drive down a street with a lot of fog.

Sometimes we can’t fully see what’s happening. That ambiguity is part of all relationships. So again, not necessarily the absence of information or knowledge, like what’s your favorite colors or shit like that, or where do you want to be touched, which is often partners don’t know when I ask in session, which.

I’m sure you have that experience too. I mean more like just like the fundamental aspects of all relationships is that there is a fuck ton of anxiety always because we don’t know, they’re insecure, they can end, people can just peace out. Two, they’re ambiguous so there’s built in mystery unconsciously, we don’t know what the fuck is going on in one person let alone two.

So there are many aspects that fundamentally define a relationship that revolve around this type of unknown and that’s what I mean by mystery.

That makes sense to me. And the unknown is, I think, like, the most scary thing probably for me, but I think for most humans. It’s terrifying.

I want to know everything.

Especially a therapist. Oh my god. Why do we think we’re in this profession? I

just want to get in there and understand all the things. I want to know

absolutely everything. Yeah. Figure out you’re unconscious, too. My partner’s like, can we, do we need to talk about this still? I’m like, but I want to know.

And he’s like, but I don’t want to tell you. I’m like, what? This isn’t gonna work. I need to know everything.

It’s such an interesting job, because I mean, like, people come and tell us the things they tell no one else. Especially as a sex therapist too, you know, it’s like people tell us things all the time that they haven’t told their partner or their best friend or their family.

I think it can make it interesting in like for me at least like in my personal life because I’m so used to these like intimate conversations that I’m kind of just like, okay, can we cut the crap? Can we just like say how we’re feeling? But not everyone operates that way.

Yeah, sometimes I catch myself asking questions that I’m like, I’m like, wait a minute, and then I’m like, I’m so sorry, you don’t have to answer that question.

But especially in my relationship, you know, like, it’s hard because I think in a very specific way, and want to process in a very specific way. And not everybody wants to do that. Yeah, should they? I don’t know. But yeah, it’s, I don’t know

either. I had a, I had an experience with a friend recently, Where I think I kind of did the therapist thing and I was let’s talk about our feelings and then Yeah, I don’t think that’s how he works I don’t think that’s how he wants to work and he kind of made a little jab the other day of like Oh, I know how you like to have everything talked about

Yeah

Yeah,

like, yeah, I do, because I think that’s functional and healthy, you know, like, yeah, no,

I question that too.

Cause sometimes I’m like, not everything needs to be talked about to death. You know, there is a balance there. Let’s talk about social media. Cause I think your dying nonsense account kind of started in response to There is, like, this weird trend of, like, people are, like, diagnosing themselves with, like, relational issues and mental health issues based on social media.

Yeah, I mean, it’s, like, kind of like porn. Social media is the only place that people can really get access to information about mental health. And so people don’t know what they’re doing. And they’ve been told, you know, a gazillion toxic things by their family and culture. And so then they open an app and the app says, you know, This is bad.

This is toxic. They’re a narcissist. If you blank your codependent and they’re like, Oh my God, this is totally what’s been happening for me. So people are really suggestible. I mean, I wish I had access to information when I was younger. That would have been helpful. It would have felt like less of a freak for feeling things.

It’s all become social values in terms of how we approach ourselves and others based on a lot of this content that’s being created. The listicles of what everything means. Mm-hmm . And they’re based on these social values about how life is meant to be lived or how relationships are meant to be. And it’s bittersweet.

’cause some of it’s really great and some of it’s really shit.

What are some of the shit patterns that you think are, oh, I don’t wanna say I take it back.

What did you say? Okay, I take the shit word back. That’s extreme. I’m tired. I would just say that there’s a lot of posts, including some of my own, that really lack a lot of nuance.

Or, depending on the reader, lack nuance. Because we’re all biased and we’re going to interpret things the way we want to interpret them. And so I don’t know. Anything to me that’s like, you’re this, if you fit this

top ten list

of anything, it kind of gives me the ick. Or anything that’s like, you know, you are dating a narcissist if they like, The narcissist one drives me crazy.

Everyone’s a narcissist

now.

Everyone’s a narcissist. And they probably are, I don’t know, but it’s still not helpful to be on the lookout. Stuff like that. I’m not into that. Or like, you know, don’t talk to your ex ever. Or, you know, these kind of really rigid and flexible, yeah, end up creating shame for people.

It’s just really sucky. But the reality is that it’s a cultural thing and it’s all being expressed on social media, especially relationships. You know, like any relationship problem now is being reframed as unhealthy, like any problem. It’s like unhealthy, you know, that we’re kind of to be healthy automatically.

In any way, relationally, sexually, emotionally. And, you know, unfortunately, that’s just not how it works cuz we live in this culture that’s incredibly toxic and gives us absolutely no information, if anything, you know, the patriarchy and all of the isn’ts and the oppressiveness of it all makes it worse.

So, I don’t, I mean, there’s a chapter in my book called Everyone’s a Little Unhealthy and that’s why, because we can’t expect ourselves to be healthy and all of these posts online and everywhere else, you know, they’re really aspirational and idealistic that I think there should be like a little caption at the bottom that says, this is not based on reality.

This is after you like, learn about your emotions. This is after you take a communication class. Because it’s like, you know, everyone’s like, we have horrible, we’re terrible communicators. It’s like, yes, of course you are. Everyone’s a horrible communicator. We learn more about math in driver’s ed than we do about how to like, give an apology.

Like, no one’s a good communicator. So it’s that kind of more of an expansive approach I think we really need.

It would be, I mean, I know there’s some schools out there that actually have like a social emotional curriculum, but. I agree. We’re just so like ill equipped for this stuff, you know, like I certainly didn’t get, you know, examples of how to communicate for my parents.

I definitely got examples of how not to communicate. No offense, mom and dad, if you’re listening. You know, because they also didn’t get examples, you know, it’s like nobody is taught this stuff and we’re just kind of a bunch of like messy humans trying to figure it out. So I think that chapter and that idea that like, we’re all a little unhealthy is kind of important.

It’s like, let’s just normalize it. Like, we’re all just doing the best we can. And also, that doesn’t mean you have a pathology or a diagnosis, you know, or something is like inherently like extra special wrong with you. Sometimes I think a lot of us like to think something’s extra special wrong with us, you know?

Everybody thinks that. I mean, I don’t know about your clients, but all of my clients come in thinking, you know, they’re doing life, relationships, sex, desperately wrong. Right. And what’s worse is the thought that they’re doing it wrong, not what they’re actually doing.

Yes, and I mean, I think that’s one of the big gifts of our job is like, I am under no illusion that anyone has it together.

Like, I know that, like, no matter how much money someone has, no matter how much, you know, fame someone has, or how awesome their relationship seems, or how many trips they take to fancy places, it’s like, they don’t have it together. It doesn’t matter. No.

No, it doesn’t. Not when everybody struggles.

Yeah.

That’s part

of being a person. It is kind of just being a person. Yeah. So one of the things you also talk about is, you know, actually changing patterns, like the work that we do with people as therapists. So How do we kind of actually make change in your opinion, and like, how do we actually overcome some of those, you know, patterns, whether they’re from childhood or, you know, later on in life that aren’t really serving us anymore?

Well, you have to want to make change. Like, really fucking want to.

Number one, yes. In

a very exaggerated, outrageous kind of a way. Like, full commitment, life depends on it, ruthless change. And then, I mean, there’s just so many different ways to make change. But for me, usually in session, it’s two different things.

One, developing insight, learning information. And by insight and information, I don’t necessarily mean, you know, psychoeducation and psychology one on one. I mean, Making what’s unconscious, conscious. Developing a story to what has happened. Connecting to our roots. Developing a solid connection to our intergenerational stories.

Like, really writing a full encyclopedia about who we are, who our parents are, who our grandparents are, where there’s trauma, where we got it, you know. All of that stuff. Our triggers, our woes. Like, literally know as much as you possibly can about yourself. And then once you have some of that information, insight and awareness and everything, you can make better choices in your life sometimes, or you can at least be kinder to yourself while you make shitty decisions.

But, so, you know, that’s a really big part of change. Also, just doing things. I mean, you know, sometimes you don’t necessarily need a whole A to Z encyclopedia in order to make a decision that leads to change. Change is always action oriented. We can’t just develop awareness and bippity boppity boo, you know.

We do have to take steps, and usually that involves feeling uncomfortable, feeling very afraid, and it’s through those experiences that we create change, because we’re then confronted by something new that challenges our brain to think differently. You know, it’s called a corrective emotional experience.

I write about this in my book. I’m sure your clients have it with you in session. And it’s when we’re confronted by experiences that are incongruent, maybe with some of the negative beliefs we have about ourselves, others, or the world. And it slowly starts to shift the way that we think, which slowly starts to shift the things that we do.

But it’s complex. I mean, you can also just do something. Without any awareness, it’s been like, I want to make this change, and some people just do it, and it changes their lives, and they have no awareness. I mean, I don’t, who cares? Who cares? Just do, think things, do things, make change. But, you know, basically what I’m describing is really a very active approach to life.

You know, not this gut instinct, not this, like, what my mama told me stuff, this real kind of, like, if I were to learn any skill, if I were to teach myself the guitar, I, you know, I would have to Google, maybe I would get a teacher, and I would have to practice, and I would have to read a book, and I would have to practice the chords, and it’s the same exact thing.

Change is a skill. Very active things we have to do to develop that skill.

There are and that is very real. I don’t know if people like realize how much work goes in to therapy. Sometimes it’s like, oh, I’ll just hire this person and they’ll help me have insights for this hour and that might help like at a very like slow rate.

But yeah, it really is having those. experiences that I think cements the changes and the practice, like you said, and the being willing to get out of the comfort zone and to realize like, don’t, at least this is my feeling, don’t like outsource your change to me. Like I can be your guide, you know, but like, honestly, you’re going to have to do all the work.

So. Yeah. And it’s a lot of work. And then I feel like I’m someone who’s done a lot of work and I also feel like there’s moments where I’m like, have I made any progress and then I’ll be like, okay, I have, you know, but like, but we can get frustrated and it can be very up and down and it’s not like a linear process.

So, but yeah, it’s like life is going to keep lifing and we’re going to hopefully keep humaning. And so. You might as well, like, try and grow and learn and enjoy it a little bit more. Yeah, do something. Read

a book. Read my book. Take a class. Google.

Yeah,

yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of access.

Your book was interesting, I mean the title of your book is interesting too, and it was very intriguing to me, How to Love Someone Without Losing Your Mind, and I’m like, is it possible?

Like, is it possible to like, not lose your shit in a relationship?

No, that’s not the point. The point is that you will lose your shit, it’s sarcastic, but I wonder if people get that. I think it’s good though, if you

lure people in anyways.

Love, life, you’re going to lose your mind, you know, it’s really hard, it’s the whole thing I was saying about expecting health, you know, we can’t really.

We’ve never learned, so you gotta learn.

Like, why, this might, it’s a weird question, I guess, but like, why do you think we keep trying to have relationships and like, specifically romantic relationships? Because we do lose our minds, but we, yeah, we keep going back for more, even though we lose our minds.

Because they feel good. That’s

because it feels good.

Sometimes.

Sometimes. Hopefully.

Yeah.

That would be the goal, you know. Yeah. You’re in a relationship or to feel good. And then, you know, then maybe it doesn’t feel good, and you end it, and then you get another relationship.

Yeah, that’s true. I mean How do you kind of discern or how do you help people discern when it’s feeling good enough and when it’s, you know, time to go?

I mean, that is the question. No matter how many guidelines you can give someone or yourself, attachment trauma, trauma, etc. is going to push you in one direction or the other and you’re going to be walking against hurricane force winds. It’s really hard to end a relationship, like really fucking hard, even if you know it.

I mean, I went through that with my ex and I loved him to death. I knew that it wasn’t working, but I couldn’t end it. It took me a long time. And I talked to so many people who are like, I need to end it, but I can’t do it. I should do it. I feel what’s wrong with me. And like, nothing’s wrong with you. You know, ending relationships is just really fucking hard.

So I don’t usually like giving these like lines. Most people know, most people know when, you know, it’s not working. If they can’t accept their partner, if they’ve tried to change it and nothing changes, you know, most people, I think, No, but You know, what I always tell people is to work on it, you know, if you’re at the place where you’re like, I think I should end it, I don’t know, but you’re not willing to end it, then the answer is not to just sit there and complain about your partner, the answer is to work on it, and so that’s in therapy, I really don’t think that any couple is equipped to work on their relational issues by themselves, you know, you can read a book or take a course and that can be helpful, but really I think couples therapy is the best, I really think that we need help, we need somebody else to kind of Sort through the bullshit because there’s a lot of it and we’re all kind of full of shit and are fully invested in it and we need somebody else to be like, you’re full of shit, you’re full of shit, you’re both full of shit.

I’m not full of shit, Todd. I don’t know what you’re

talking about.

Oh, I’m full of shit. Yeah. I mean, I’m, again, I’m sure someone could find a post that says it’s time to end your relationship when, but you know, I will say, of course, if you feel unsafe. Physically, emotionally, and the relationship abuse is never a thing to put up with run.

Don’t walk. But otherwise, if you want to end the, I mean, most, that’s what I’m saying is most people, if they want to end a relationship, they just don’t and they know.

So what about those of us on the other side where we’re just like, I’m going to cut and run. I’m out of here. What advice do you have for us?

Go cut and run. If that’s what you want to do. I mean, then that’s. Sounds like it’s an important thing to, you’re responding to internally.

Yeah. Unless it isn’t. I don’t know. Yeah, that’s interesting. Cause it’s like, I think there, there is an idea of like what we should do, which is interesting to work with.

And I think that the should and the want don’t often, or. Sometimes at least don’t line up, you know, like I should exit or I know it’s time, but I don’t actually want to yet or I should stay and like do the work, but I don’t actually want to,

which is why again, I think, you know, it can be so confusing and that unknown component is so hard to grapple with and ambivalence is a fucking.

Pain in the ass though. That’s why I think going in couples therapy is just so important to help work through some of that stuff.

It is honestly because it’s like by definition you can’t see your own blind spots you know and so I think just having another person who’s trained in this stuff who can see the patterns and help identify what’s going on and why just that awareness is going to help change things and whether you decide to stay with this person or not it’s still going to serve you while moving forward.

Now. Okay. Well, this has been a very interesting discussion. Thank you for being so honest about, you know, therapy and your own life and relationships. And if people want to connect with you, if they want to read your book, what is the best way for them to find you?

Yeah, people, you can find me, um, on Instagram can go to my website, toddusbarretts.

com, you can go to any retailer and order my book, How to Love Someone Without Losing Your Mind, and

yeah,

those are all the ways.

Awesome! Alright, I have a podcast called

OurDiagnonsense.

Yeah.

That’s important. I have online courses if you want to reach out.

Yeah. We’ll put Todd’s links in the show notes too.

So awesome. Well, thank you for being here and sharing some of your wisdom with people. And we’re excited for your book launch.

Thank you for all of your support. Heather. It’s really nice to connect with you.

Likewise. Bye everybody. We’ll catch you next Monday. Thank you for listening to the Ask a Sex Therapist podcast.

Got a question about spicing things up in the bedroom? Find the answers you’re looking for in my Dirty Talk Guide, a free resource for my podcast listeners. Grab yours now at heathershannon. co forward slash dirty talk. Again, that’s heathershannon. co forward slash dirty talk. And be sure to tell your partner or friends because everyone has something they would like to ask a sex therapist.