This is the Ask a Sex Therapist podcast, helping you change the way you look at sex. I’m Heather Shannon, and in a world full of sexual censorship, I’ll give you the raw truth about pleasure, intimacy in your relationships, and enjoying your body. Because it’s time for you to Ask a Sex Therapist.

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 hello, everybody. There are some small audio quality issues in this episode. We apologize. But, Welcome to another fun and educational and exciting episode. Um, we have a guest here who I met from speaking together at a summit, which was very fun. And I’d like to tell you a little bit about her. Dr. Diane Mueller,

uh, N.

D. and D. A. O. M. is a seasoned sexual wellness authority blending a strong educational foundation with a rich clinical and teaching experience with a dual doctorate in naturopathic medicine and acupuncture and oriental medicine. Diane has illuminated the discourse on sexual health through her practice, MyLibidoDoc.

Her personal journey through sexual health challenges has equipped her with a unique empathic lens, enriching her holistic approach to patient care. Diane extends her expertise through the Libido Lounge podcast, which we just recorded for, her online training institute, and by training medical professionals worldwide in functional medicine.

So thank you so much for joining me, Diane. I’m very excited to have your super holistic, uh, Dr. Lens on libido today.

Thank you, Heather. I am excited for another conversation with you, the

I know I’m like, let me just pick your brain. Um, Yeah. And I actually also love that you put in your bio that like you have had your own personal experience with sexual health challenges because I think so many people have, and it just normalizes it, you know, to just realize, okay, she’s an expert and she can still have challenges and work through them and you know, get it and not judge me.

So I love it.

Absolutely. Yeah. And then, you know, the thing is, it’s like, even challenges, they come and go. Like one of the things that I just even went last month, I moved my home and it was, I was in a place that was moldy. That’s happened to me before. I’m very well seasoned at understanding what to do in those scenarios.

And I’m very reactive to mold. So it was not feeling very well and moving and keeping up with my business and all the, you know, just the life things, feeling sick, feeling not well. Well, of course my libido went down, right? So like naturally stresses, I got a bazillion things on my mind. And so I think one of the things that I like to explain to, to people in, in relationship to what you just said is like most of us that are, you know, these seasons experts, like, like, you know, ourselves here, we.

Typically do go through like highs and lows of it. It’s not like, Oh, we’re in like the world. So like every moment at every day, we’re feeling super right. It’s more around like, this is part of the education and the teaching is like, yeah, like just like anything else in health and wellness, there’s highs and lows.

And, and how I worked through the past month with my partner was literally just like naming it and expressing to him. Like this is happening for me. This is not you and having open dialogue around. Hey, how can we, even though I’m feeling this way, how can we keep our connection? How can I still show up for you so that you feel like I’m still prioritizing you and you’re still a priority, you know, to me and all of this at the same time, how can I honor the fact that I’m just exhausted and I want to go to bed during this time for 10 hours a night, that sort of thing.

And. Naming it right, really, really helps take the pressure off, keeps the, the, the connection

Mm hmm.

And so, yeah, like you said, we all, we all go through this, you know, just because it’s just because I’m in this field does not mean I wake up every day and I’m like, oh, yeah, today, another super sexy day.

Like, right.

I mean, and I think the upside is maybe that like when our libido dips or when we’re just not into it, we at least know why and we at least like have a better understanding of what’s going on. And that’s kind of all I want for everyone listening is just to understand the ups and downs and understand kind of what is in your control and what isn’t.

And I also kind of want to just point out that like what you said was so simple, but it actually takes some advanced skills to, and like a set of skills to be able to communicate like that. Like, first you have to have the self awareness and be like tapped in enough to your body during a stressful time of upheaval to realize.

What’s going on? Um, then you need to be able to manage your emotions well enough to calmly and proactively share with your partner how you’re feeling and to hold space for them when you’re also going through a stressful time. So there’s actually quite a lot there, even though you said it so simply. And so I kind of want people to understand, like, there’s several different skill sets.

That you can work towards building to get to that point where you’re like, okay, I’m kind of like managing this like a pro. It’s not that it’s not happening , but, but you can manage it like a pro. Um, so that, that would be my 2 cents for that. Um,

The season part as well. Like the, I think the other thing to comment on there is I think that’s why it’s important that all the techniques that, you know, that you and I teach throughout our work and our education, practicing these techniques in times where things are great, it’s like, Oh, when times are great and easy, like maybe not as important to name the up and down of like, you know, maybe the season.

Small nuances day to day because it’s like, oh, this is so small. Maybe I feel a tiny bit off today But I feel 98 percent good, right? But it’s the more I think we can practice in times where it’s like Feel emotionally. Well What I believe that does is we practice

Mm-Hmm,

easy so that we are prepared when

Yeah. I could, I couldn’t agree

and I think

Yeah. And that’s, that’s something I’ve been seeing with my clients recently too, where they start feeling better and they start feeling more sexually connected. And then they stopped booking their sessions. And I’m like, no, no, no. We need to like, let’s get like a few months of like continuous, like awesome communication, sex, openness, um, self awareness first, you know, and then maybe we start kind of weaning off.

But, um, and these were actually people who prepaid for their sessions too. Um, so it is, it’s important to kind of keep going, even when things are going well, especially.

Yes, 100%, 100%.

So, okay, let’s back it up a little bit. Um, because we’ve, we’ve talked a couple of times, but I don’t feel like I don’t know like a ton about your background. So how did you get into being a naturopath and then how did you wind up with the libido specialty? What?

questions. You know, so many of us that wind up in, I think, anything in the alternative holistic. However, we want to like the non traditional way of approaching health and wellness. So many of us have our own stories and. I actually ended up in naturopathic medicine due to a lot of physical stuff that was going on.

It started as like gastrointestinal distress and a lot of chronic IBS, chronic constipation, a lot of just like discomfort and lab tests were normal. So that’s really how I, I ended up being a naturopath as I was looking for like, well, Lab tests are normal. Doctors are telling me normal, but yet one day I’m a size six and the next day I’m so bloated.

I’m a size 16. It was like literally like that. This is not normal and yet everybody was telling me I was normal, so hence . It was insane. And so many people It was extreme. Yeah, it was like a, it was very, very extreme case of a combination of things of different bacteria, different overgrowths of small intestinal B, bacterial overgrowth, parasites.

On and on and on and on. So, and it was an extreme thing to be told that that was happening and that I would lie awake in bed sometimes, which is with like pregnant belly, right? My belly would just swell so much. And like with that amount of like swelling, it would be like, wow, like I could look pregnant overnight.

And I mean, well, obviously that’s very painful because what’s causing that and, you know, and then being told that, hey, your lab tests are normal. Everything’s fine. Don’t worry about it. This is just your normal. Like, that wasn’t really good enough for me. So.

when you’re like trying to seek help and you know something is wrong with your body. I’ve had that experience too, so that, that could be a whole other topic of like, medical gaslighting,

Yes, the term I use medical gaslight is exactly what it is. And, you know, I think it’s just, it’s like, poor way of poor paradigm of medicine that we get into of, like, oh, we can’t figure it out. It must be that you’re it’s in your head versus, like. You know, it needs to go see somebody else that can figure it out.

Right? So it’s a very strange, strange paradigm we’re in that way. Um, but, you know, that was the, the catalyst, right? That got me into holistic medicine and doing naturopathic doctorate school as well as, you know, You know, my oriental doctorate, just because I was looking for information around like, I know this is not normal.

And of course, in that program, I learned a lot. I found about a lot of other lab tests and now I have wonderful digestion and it’s no longer a problem.

Mm-Hmm.

Yeah. And my interest in libido, I mean, honestly, like there’s, it’s kind of come throughout the years in waves. Like, There was a lot of interest in it in my early 20s where I started getting interested in the topic just from a standpoint of, I had a lot of, as I think a lot of people do, a lot of sexual shame.

And, you know, and some of it was how I was raised in a very religious type of scenario where, and then it’s, you know, even comes, it comes down to like sex education. I know you, and I talked about this, I asked you this question on my podcast last week when we were talking and, and some of the, the conversation we had around, oh, starting with education at a young age and the way that so many of us are educated is just like sex is for procreation and that’s it.

And You know, so it’s like experiencing pleasure. And then with my religious upbringing around, this really is just procreation. There was just so much shame. And then I remember meeting a friend, a very good friend in my early twenties, who was just very open about talking about sexuality and about her experience with self pleasure.

And, and it was just like mind blowing to me. And. Once I had, like, found this amazing human that could explain this other side of it, it really opened up. That was, like, kind of the first door for me of curiosity in this topic. And, you know, and then through a ton of various things, anything from, like, sexual trauma and going through and surviving and recovering from a sexual assault and, you know, Seeing like the numbness and the disconnection with my own body and all those things I need to recover from.

So there was various things like that, you know, these various things throughout life. And then the final component truthfully was going through divorce several years back. And that was like the final catalyst for me. I was like, Oh yeah, I really need to focus on this because. My number one core value as a human being is

Okay.

And what really it, you know, the going through the divorce for me, it just, it started me studying more relationship stuff and, and intimacy stuff from a standpoint of what actually keeps couples together. And one study that shows that the average, the couples that report the happiest Partnerships are people that have sex or, you know, intimacy from a sexuality perspective, not necessarily intercourse, but, but they’re intimate 50 times a year.

So on average, once a week. With our divorce rates and with the people I talk to in my community, it’s like that’s not happening and we’re losing our connection. We’re falling out of love, we’re going through divorce, there’s so much trauma and all that. So I feel like kind of the final piece that was like, Oh yeah, I really need to make this a priority and help educate and support other humans this way was that loss of connection through my own relationship.

Um, so I love that you’ve gone through your own, I mean, I don’t love that you had to go through an uncomfortable experience, but it sounds like I love that you learned so much from it and that, you know, you did all this research and I’m curious, how does that affect how you approach things with clients?

yeah, great question. The biggest thing is 1. I mean, I think anytime we go through things, it helps make us more, you know, compassion and empathetic and all those, you know, sorts of things, but like anything, I really feel like the, the other thing is. Just a good reminder, all the different root causes

Yes. So many in this area. It’s so holistic. Right.

is. And so many times it’s like, people say libido and like, like when I tell people, I’m a libido doc, like, like if I just meet people in the world, Oh, so you can, you, can you fix my hormones? So it’s it for me, right? As soon as I say libido, and even I, I say this to other medical professions, right?

It’s not just. Lay people that aren’t in the field. It’s it’s even other medical professionals. The first thought they go to is hormones and Then when I actually it’s interesting when I work with hormone specialists and and I have some hormone docs that refer to me They refer to me because they get it.

They refer to me the person that’s like, oh, yeah, they come they fix their hormones Their hormones are great. A lot of things get better Hormones get regulated, but yet their libido doesn’t turn back on and people come in and they’re like, well, my testosterone is normal. My estrogen is normal. Why don’t I have libido still?

And so, you know, I think, I think anytimes we go through things, it’s just, you know, more lessons around like, oh yeah, all the different layers. And so we see all the different physical root causes. We see the hormones, we see all the vasculature, we see the neurological, the inflammatory.

Yeah, that really is so much.

So many, but then also like, what is our relationship with ourself? Are we really prioritizing our partner? Are we prior, or is it priority prioritizing

Mm hmm.

Amazing to me that this is not talked about more because we so much in health, we talk about things like, okay, you want to go to the gym, put that on your schedule.

When are you going to the gym? You know, you, and we’re taking our, Okay, this is when dinner time is and all these different things we want to see our friends that goes on the calendar but when it comes to Prioritizing time to really connect with oftentimes the main person in our life oftentimes the thing that doesn’t

It, I couldn’t agree with you more. Like I I’ve been feeling like there’s just kind of an insanity that’s going around. And I had a, I had somebody reply to me and say, Oh, I don’t think we’re going to work with you. You know, it’s expensive or my husband doesn’t want to, but we have a vacation coming up and we have all the kids stuff this summer.

And I was like, okay, so, so just to be clear, you’re prioritizing your vacation and like your kid’s soccer camp over saving your marriage. Okay, great. , you know, but I, and I think you’re right. It’s like we don’t think about it in those terms. And so it’s just like life goes on and we just almost assume that that relationship should just be there for us without nurturing it and prioritizing it.

Mm-Hmm.

Yeah, and and you know the thing that so many of us talk about is this in the schedule thing, right? Or I’m like, okay schedule sex schedule intimacy schedule date nights You And I think one of the things that like, there’s a lot of pushback, I feel like from people when we say that, and, and, and your example, the perfect example of it, because I think what happens is we think in our relationships, we shouldn’t have to schedule this.

It should just like spontaneously happen. And the way I like to orient people back is in the beginning, when things are usually passionate and we are for each other, we feel all these things. Well, we’re not typically living together. We’re not typically in a long term relationship. And so we’re scheduling things.

So like, what’s interesting is we think scheduling is so strange to do because it changes instantaneously. But in the beginning, when things were awesome,

And you looked forward to them and it was like fun to schedule them. Yes. Yes.

Exactly. And then we begin together and we get closer and then there’s just this ease and it’s like, Oh, I don’t have to take time to schedule because I see this person all the time.

But that is not that’s not real, you know, realistic. It’s like when we’re seeing each other, it’s in passing or did you take out the trash or who’s going to get the groceries? Get the kids versus like, Oh, you know what? Friday night is our night. And maybe everything between now and Friday is these passing kind of conversations about the kids and the food and the grocery, but Friday night at 6 PM, we have four hours where it is about us and that’s what we do.

And then we stopped doing it.

I think it’s so true. And I think everything you just mentioned also highlights that you become roommates with someone you meet, you become co parents with someone. Those tend to not be the sexiest roles. So if anything, there’s more of a need to like set aside that time than when you’re first dating. Um,

Yeah, exactly. Like I, you know, I have my big comfy, like oversized sweatshirt. That is just, I, I’ve had this sweatshirt since I was frankly, I think I got this sweatshirt at

Oh my God.

years old and I loved it before. So I’ve had this sweatshirt for a long time, right? This is like, it’s like. It really is, but it’s baggy and it’s old.

And it’s one of those things that it’s like not living with a partner. Like they never even know about this sweatshirt. Well, then I’m having a comfort that I’m living with my partner. It’s like, Oh boy, here’s the sweatshirt. Right. And so that kind of stuff starts happening. Right. And we don’t even think about the impact.

It’s not to say like, Hey, living together, we can’t have those days where it’s like, I just need some comfort. Put on the things and wear the things that are more about comfort than, you know, of course, but it’s so easy to just fall into that habit. Then this is what I do all the time. And versus like, Hey, what is just like, what is my commitment to the gym?

What is my commitment to like putting something on, you know, twice a week? You know, that’s going to be a, just a little bit more visually appealing for my partner. Of course, if we have kids, we. Keep that in, you know, in mindfulness of them, but there’s still ways we can still show up and look more visually appealing and look more attractive to our partner, you know, where’s that point with the

Right. It is. And I mean, also that effort, I think pays off for ourselves and like how we perceive ourselves because, and I think a lot of people saw this, you know, during the pandemic and having to stay at home. It’s like, it can get depressing if you’re just like, okay, I’ve been in pajamas all day and I haven’t showered in a few days.

And it’s like, are you feel, are you feeling sexy in that moment? Probably not. You know?

Yeah.

I think,

Yeah. I mean, I, I don’t wear, you know, I work from home. I, I typically right now I’m barefoot. Right. But some days I bring down from my closet, I bring down shoes that have high heels. And for hours a day, I just put my high heels on. I’m sitting down and I don’t do it all day or every day, but something to get in that altered state.

And it’s such a simple thing, but you know, these, all these little tiny things, it’s like the atomic

I have. Yeah, I love that.

habits? Yeah, and it’s like we go, you know, I think exercise is probably the analogy I use the most since I’m an athlete, but it’s like in the book, you talk about like, oh, a small habit.

It’s like if you want to start a workout routine, you actually break it down. And the first habit you may do is you put your workout shoes, your running shoes, right by your bed. So you get out of bed and you put your shoes on right away. Now, and so it’s like all those tiny when we’re talking about, Oh my gosh, I don’t have time.

Well, what we’re doing is we want to start breaking it down and saying, okay, well, in prioritizing our relationship and prioritizing our sexuality and prioritizing ourselves and our partner, what are actually the tiny little things, the tiny little habits that we can do, right? Is it that You have an alarm on your phone once a week at whatever time that reminds you like, Hey, today I’m going to put on

Mm hmm.

or whatever it is.

Like, you know, so the habit is not where the sexy panties once a week for my partner, the habit is put the alarm on the phone. So I’m triggered to do that. And then this is something I do without thinking about it. And that’s how we start building it in where it starts becoming part of our life instead of like, Oh my gosh, I’m so busy.

And it’s just one extra thing.

Yeah. I think that’s such a good point, and I also want to kind of mention that it’s, you know, It’s going to be different things for each person, right? And so that’s part of your work. If you’re listening is to figure out, is it the heels and the sexy panties? Is it playing with your new sex toy and having some solo sex?

Is it, you know, um, going out and flirting with someone, even if you have no intention of it going anywhere or taking a dance class, you know? So there’s, there’s so many different things and like that is part of the work to figure out. What are your things? You know, see if you can have a handful, see if you can come up with four or five things that are like, Oh, this kind of just makes me feel myself a little bit more, you know, or this makes me a little more confident with my partner.

Yeah. I have a, I have a class coming up next week. I’m teaching next week from this recording. It’ll be already recorded by the time this goes live, but called, are you having the right kind of sex? And it’s basically exactly that whole concept you’re talking about is I think, I think, you know, part of our problem that we get into culturally and societally is like, we have one version of what is displayed in the media.

This is what

you.

look like.

Yes.

And it’s like, Okay, so yeah, I appreciate you bringing that up. Like I’m giving these examples, but it’s a really important brought up because that the examples might resonate with one person, but if it doesn’t resonate with you, okay, that’s your pleasure body talking. And you know, what does your pleasure body and like the right kind of sex is the kind of sex that your pleasure body, you know, enjoys is the kind of sex that your partner’s pleasure body enjoys.

And that’s kind of sex that you can come together and do

Yeah.

And. That’s it. So that’s something that like the, I feel like the exploration that we get to help our clients with is more around like being open to try things and how do you go out trying things and how do you get out of, Hey, it’s supposed to look like just what we saw on, you know, that hot movie or whatever.

It’s around like, well, that might feel good to that person or that person over there. Beautiful. But just like we have so many different tastes about everything else in life. So does our

I appreciate, first of all, I love the term pleasure body. Like, yes, let’s talk about that more. And also, I appreciate what you’re saying because, you know, so many of my clientele, myself included, identify as either, you know, kinky, or queer, or non monogamous, and sometimes we’re not seeing You know, those depictions anywhere.

And so, you know, to realize like for you and, you know, if you’re someone who’s trans, it might be like wearing a binder or, you know, packing, or, um, you know, if you’re somebody who’s kinky, it might be like, okay, how can I have some kind of subversive pleasure that is maybe, you know, going against gender norms or leaning into them in some way that like, I don’t even believe in my daily life.

You know, and so I think there’s so many, um, really unique ways to, to kind of light up that pleasure body. Um, and so if you’re listening and you’re not seeing that, just know that like, you do you, you know, um, like there’s, there’s infinite ways and no two sexualities are totally alike. So, um, yeah. So how did you come up with this pleasure body term?

I love this.

I can’t, um, own this. This was actually mostly through my, my dance teacher, Liz Janouse. She’s like this amazing dance teacher. I started in like S factor style dance classes, Sheila Kelly’s work around pool dancing and around Sheila Kelly’s work is about. the different archetypes of a sexual body. And so just like we have, you know, blueprint styles and different archetypal models of all different personality types and sexual types and whatnot, this is more like the essential sexual archetypes of the, focused on the, the female.

And so essentially then from that standpoint and doing these various different types of classes, you might show up one day and be like, okay, today I’m going to dance from this place of the dangerous challenger is what one of them’s called. And so the dangerous challenger has all these like personality types, and maybe this is not the personality types and the sexual types that might naturally go to, but you kind of try it on in context.

Classes to be like, how does this feel? And so we talk about pleasure body and some of those, and then the work I did with Liz for many years was really then about taking some of those concepts, but almost going down into very different, like emotional, more emotional types of things. So for example, like the book existential kink, have

my god, it’s literally right here. I’m reading it now. Yeah.

I love it. You know, it’s like, and that book is so cool because it really does bring up these patterns, right? That we can’t get out of. And it’s like, maybe we can’t get out of these patterns because we have some sort of like kink. We have some sort of draw to whatever that story is that we repeat in ourselves.

And so in the concept of these classes, one of the things we’ve done is we’ve taken books like that. And then we’ve gone through our own exploration around like, okay, what patterns am I stuck in? What are my expectations? And then where are those patterns kind of like holding in my nervous system? And then dance and through movement and through kind of some, some guided cues actually dance and move from the different emotional kinks that we are housing in our body.

And sometimes we, you know, sometimes the discovery is like, Oh, there’s this release where like, that actually was like, Maybe something that I was holding on to from a pleasure kink perspective that isn’t serving me anymore But it’s playing out subconsciously until I can actually move that you know that that story And it’s interesting because I would go through and I’m not really doing these classes so much anymore But in these classes, I would often go through these journeys like with that book with

Oh, fun.

And so then you have other people that are witnessing and, and seeing your body move, like, Oh, I’m feeling this thing.

My body’s moving in this way. And then they can, you can actually get that feedback from others as you process through things. So, you know, it’s just a very different way of experiencing, like, and so that’s kind of like the existential kink is an example of the pleasure body, right? It’s like, okay, we have this kink of whatever sort of emotional, whatever sort of beat thought pattern that we’re, Almost continually thinking and creating our reality around and that’s because on some level there’s a kink There’s a pleasure.

It’s in our pleasure body whether or not it’s serving us or not There still might be something that it’s like actually doing that our pleasure body is

absolutely. Yeah. And I think it is so important to do. I love the existential kink approach because I think it’s kind of like a, a fun way to do shadow work. You know, it’s kind of like, Oh, okay. I keep feeling really, you know, like it’s a struggle with money or I keep feeling like, you know, I picked the wrong lovers or I keep feeling like You know, I’m battling the same health issues and it’s kind of like whatever is a repetitive pattern for you, like this is worth exploring.

Um, and seeing like, is there some kind of hidden secret part of you that’s just like thrilled with these things? Um, and that’s kind of what I love about, you know, sexual kink too. It’s like taking this subversive pleasure and like allowing parts of yourself that. Would often get exiled, um, which I also think can be part of libido issues.

It’s like if we have conflict about our own sexuality, whether it’s, you know, fantasies or attractions that we have, um, or thinking our libido is too high. Even, uh, I’ve seen people in that camp who are just like kind of trying to compartmentalize and shut things down. Um, but what are some common patterns that you see with people when it comes to libido and maybe what shuts it down or even turns it up too much?

Yeah, I mean, the, the super basic thing that we have to name, but then we also have to not get stuck here, I feel like is

Hmm.

right. So like the obvious thing is like stress and, and that plays. And for most people, I feel like that puts kind of like the brakes on, but for some people it does actually rev up the, the libido.

And so that’s the obvious thing I’ve, I bring up and I see

Hmm.

and safety.

Yeah.

It’s huge, right? And this can be from as simple as, Hey, I don’t, like, obviously if we don’t actually feel physically or sexually safe at all, you know, from a standpoint of, uh, more trauma or more abuse, that’s one thing. Very obvious, but the other kind of, you know, components of safety that I think are sometimes more below the surface are things more around, like, wow, we had this, you know, this discussion and I felt like you snapped at me when I was feeling like I was being very vulnerable.

And so now I’m feeling right. So it can be those things that oftentimes we brush her out along the rug. Shame. You know, some of what I, I hear when you’re bringing up around like, oh, the exploration of like almost the shadow sides or the things we get to explore with kink. One of the things there I think is connected to shame around shame around having certain thoughts or desires and.

Sometimes then, if we don’t feel safe in sharing those with our partner, we see almost that shame safety pendulum where it’s like, okay, well, I’m a little bit, you know, maybe feel a little shame about like this fantasy, but I also want to try it, but I don’t feel safe, you know, with my partner to share this.

And then it can turn into even more self shame and we can get into that, that vicious cycle. So I think those are, you know, some of the big things, obviously having the right, you know, the right kind of sex, the wrong kind of sex. I think another huge thing is just not even knowing ourselves and what to ask for.

And I think this all Back to, you know, the, the cultural things around, around sex and around self pleasure and self exploration and all those things. There’s just so much, so much stigma and so many people, like I, I find are like, okay, well I wanna try something more novel. Like, I wanna mix it up. I wanna bring that newness into my relationship, but like, I don’t even know what to ask for.

I don’t know where to start. I, you know, it’s like, there’s just, where do you even begin? Because it’s so hard to find education

It is. So where do you recommend people start who are in that camp of like, Hey, okay, maybe I don’t know myself as well and I’m not able to communicate what I want because I haven’t done that exploration. Like how do they start exploring or where do they start looking?

It really, I think, depends upon a lot of different things. You know, I think sexual orientation is a big thing. I think, um, gender identity is a big thing. I think religious beliefs are a big thing. So I think the answer to that is very dependent upon all of those factors. And it’s going to be different for everybody and it’s going to be different at the level people are at so I tend to in my work.

My focus is on Long term monogamous couples or people that are looking for that kind of relationship So that’s my orientation. So somebody that is that is that identifies as more of gender neutral or trans I’m, probably not going to be the expert for them because i’m not an expert in those areas so You Finding, you know, first of all, finding somebody that is an expert in whatever, you know, your unique, your unique situation is, I think is really important, but I do think then starting oftentimes with wherever you’re at.

And I think some of it is just as. If you are in a partnership or partnerships, then it can be as simple as doing exercises. Like one of my favorite exercises to give people that do have another person or persons in their life to explore with is to say, okay, well, have your fun and just pay attention as you’re going about it to the details of what you’re enjoying.

You know, it’s like, You’re enjoying, hey, hand on my hip here, but hand on my hip there, not so much. Pay attention to those nuances, and then, not immediately after, but, because usually we’re in that moment, but as soon as you get a moment, then try to go back and journal as specifically as we can around like, okay, this is the thing that actually felt safe.

better than that thing and so we actually start because So many times if we’re not writing this down we can kind of lose track of it And then if we do that a few times you can kind of see patterns as you read And then it becomes okay. Well, what if if you’re open to depending upon Religious beliefs and everything but if you’re open to masturbation and self discovery Then it’s like okay.

Well in these areas of my body that i’m discovering What happens if I explore with myself in those areas and how does that feel? And so that, you know, that can be a useful exercise. And then depending upon the safety and where we are at with communicating with, you know, with our lovers or lover in our life, then we can come back and say, okay, well, how does it feel if we are actually talking to them and be like that thing?

Like, I really like if you do this and I want to

Oh, I love

What other ideas can we do

That’s great phrasing too. People should steal that.

yeah. Yeah,

I really love this and I want to

across as lovely, this is really important,

it is. That’s, and it’s just, yeah, when we can frame things in sort of a fun, enthusiastic way, you know, and, and I really think talking about sex with a partner can be such great foreplay, you know, I think that like mental foreplay is often missing, but just to kind of get excited about ideas, you know, um, yeah,

you know, text flirting and text talking, those things are great, but think about how much it adds, you know, for our listeners, like how much does it add when we’re really specific, when we’re able to say like, Hey, this one thing like, Oh my gosh, there’s one thing that was driving me crazy.

I keep wondering like what we can do to just like, Make that thing even more crazy and grow even more. And like, like that, like I can’t even feel that in my body. I get a little goosebumps when I say it like that. Cause when we’re specific like that, it puts the other person, they’re visualizing it now versus like, you know, Hey, you’re so sexy.

I can’t wait to, you know, do our thing later. It’s, it’s very, very different than being extremely specific about what we are actually turned on

Yeah. I think that is so true. And I, I couldn’t agree more. Like if I receive like a specific text, that’s like, Oh, I just thought about me doing blah, blah, blah to you. Or I just thought about you doing this while I’m doing, I’m like, Oh, you know, and it does, it really kind of creates that like mental excitement.

Um, that I think is often the missing factor, you know, like people might be like, Oh yeah, well, I mean, we did the kissing and we did the oral sex. And I just wasn’t into it. And I’m like, well, if you weren’t in the right mood to start and you’re like doing it for the other person. That could explain why. So, so figure out your mental turn on too.

Um, so, okay. I wanted to ask you about, we’ve kind of gotten into novelty a little bit as we’re starting to talk about this, but can you talk about the importance of novelty in a sexual relationship, especially when it is like a longterm monogamous relationship?

Yeah, I, the idea of novelty is connected to our brain chemistry, right? And so much desire is about the brain and, and turn on is about the brain and all the benefits of that come from sexuality, not all, but a lot of them are connected to our brain and our brain chemistry. So when we are in that newness, right?

So novelty is easy to think about from like the newness of an early relationship and everybody knows that. Feeling of like, can’t stop thinking about that person. Are they going to call? And are they going to text? And when are we going to see each other again? And all the things, right?

drugs. Yeah.

You absolutely are. And then my main one, the top one is dopamine. And so dopamine, that pleasure hormone, like we think of dopamine oftentimes is like the reward hormone and it is, but it’s also motivation and drive. So we increase dopamine. Not only do we, when we get the thing that we want, right? It’s like, Oh, we’ve been wanting chocolate cake.

We’ve been wanting sex. We get to have sex. We get to have chocolate cake. We get dopamine. But another huge thing that increases dopamine is that space. So if I have space between now and when I’m going to

Mm hmm.

food, now and when I’m going to see my friends, now and when I’m going to see my partner.

When I have space, there’s that longing and that space of, of I want something, I can’t have it yet. That motivation towards that actually increases dopamine. So that desire, that drive, that motivation is all dopamine. Dopamine, it makes us happy and then we get the thing. Then we also get another hit of dopamine.

So that’s novelty, right? That’s that beginning of the relationship, that newness. One of the reasons why it tends to wear out is all of a sudden we start seeing somebody we care about. More and more and more, more frequent, there’s less space, there’s less space, there’s more

Mm hmm.

For many people, they move in together, then there’s less space, and you know you’re going to see them at the end of every day, most days.

You know you’re going to see them at the beginning of most days, those kind of things. But now, there’s not that space. To drive that dopamine. So initially space is actually how we, what huge way of how we create novelty. It’s not the only thing, right. It can still be that anticipation, but we don’t know this.

So we don’t use this. And this is where, you know, the talking, the flirting, the new thing, the kink, whatever it is, even it’s, you know, it’s like, is a simple like creating desire by. Putting on a new outfit or a wig or creating a desire through bondage or whatever your thing is, right? Whatever it is, the whole concept of novelty in longer term relationships, monogamous and otherwise, like it’s a little bit easier oftentimes from a more of a polyamorous type of,

Yeah.

swinger type of open relationship

Right.

that.

And that is one of those things with some of those relationships is like. It naturally has that built in, right? But for those that choose a monogamous relationship, there is oftentimes that extra focus to say, okay, well, what can we say if it’s, if it’s Friday date night, what are we doing on Friday date night?

That’s going to bring a level of, of novelty of, of this new. And I tend to say for, you know, for people that are In these longer term monogamous relationships, it’s people, places, and things are like the major category. So with monogamy, plate, you know, people are going to be, can be role playing, you know, it can be, you know, dressing up in some new outfit.

It’s like a new persona. You can try the different, read about the different archetypes that I’m talking about, say from like a S factor, these other types of categories, but like today, I’m gonna like, I read about the dangerous challenge or today Dangerous challenger, right? So you can emulate that and then create that level of like, you know, telling a partner like, okay, I’m today when you get home or Friday, when you’re going to get home, even better create that space, this is what’s going to happen and you can text from that dangerous challenger, my like kind of thing to create

like, I’m huge on like building anticipation. And I think what you’re describing is just like a really concrete way to do that. You know, um, that’s awesome. Everyone do this at home.

and so that’s that novelty. So that’s kind of people and then places are, you know, the obvious thing, whether, you know, you’d rather or whether it’s something like, oh, we’re going to go to this, you know, new, like right by the hour hotel. And if anybody’s never done that, they, you can find a lot of classy places that do that.

It’s like, really nice. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. A lot of really popular hotels will rent rooms by the hour for like business people, and you can go rent rooms by, so it doesn’t have to be like a sleazy, like, you know, yeah, so that’s a really fun way to just be like, okay, lunch date, we’re going to, you know, meet at this hotel and rent a room for an hour.

And that creates an element of novelty, you know? And so, and then other places have like, have you guys been intimate in every room of your house? Have you had sex in the closet? Right. So that’s places. And then things are, you know, anything like toys, anything else that will bring more of a physical object, it could be food, it could be ice, it could be some bondage thing, it could be anything, right?

So many options. But those are kind of like, I like to give people concrete categories and obviously we could think about a lot of options. Other ways beyond this to create that I feel like people places and things when I’ve tried to like categorize things around how to get people to in that mode of how do I even begin to be creative or like, okay, how could I create a different persona?

How could I be in a different place or location? How could I bring a different object? And those are three concrete places to try. And then, like you said, like that anticipation. Build that in, flirt around it, create the distance, create the space. So you’re thinking about it. You’re talking about it. You’re building that dopamine back into your

I love this. And I just, I love that your perspective is informed by like being a naturopath, your own personal lived experiences, you know, studying the stuff with like S factor and everything. Um, you know, so I’m, I’m excited for people to benefit from your wealth of knowledge. So if people are curious, like how, okay, how can I work with Dr.

Diane? How can I, um, reach out to her? What are the, yeah. Offerings and how can people find you?

Yes. Super simple thing is go take my libido quiz. So it’s just libido quiz. com.

URL

Yeah. That was available. So yeah, so levitoquiz. com, if you go there, it’ll give you some of the, the point of the quiz is to elicit some of the top root causes from a physical perspective. It’s focused on the physical, but so many people, like I said, just think it’s hormones.

If you take that quiz, it might pop up around like, actually, it’s more likely that you’re not getting enough blood flow, which is also true, you know, for females and not just, um, you know, uh, people that are born with, with male body parts, right? So essentially from that. standpoint, if you go take the libido quiz, you’ll get not only ideas, but solutions that will pop out for you as well around like, Oh, make sure you ask about these labs.

Here’s access where

I love that.

kinds of things. So guided way of, of helping you make sure you’re not missing any gaps. Yeah,

uh, link to that in the show notes too. But libido quiz.com. Mm-Hmm.

super easy. And then my website, you know, my focus really is on education. So working is largely from an educational standpoint. So the phrase you find on my website is the sex education we all want, but none of us got. And so it’s really a lot of, you know, these kinds of conversations around how do we, how do we start to have that difficult conversation with our partner?

How do we actually have that insight onto what our own sexual needs, desires, preferences, and dislikes, you know, are what happens when we’re like having pelvic floor tension and it hurts. Like, where do we begin? Like all of these types of topics. I’m constantly taking, uh, feedback and cues from all of my, my community members.

So if people are like, Oh, we need this topic in the platform. I want to hear about it. I’m always interested in creating what my community needs. So that’s that you, I mean, my main website, which is my libido

All right. Thank you so much for being here, Dr. Diane. And thank you everyone for listening. Um, this was, I mean, I learned a couple of things. I feel like I’m going to steal a couple concepts and the pleasure body and all that good stuff. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you everyone for listening and we will catch you next Monday.

Bye.

Thank you for listening to the Ask a Sex Therapist podcast. Got a question about spicing things up in the bedroom? Find the answers you’re looking for in my Dirty Talk Guide, a free resource for my podcast listeners. Grab yours now at heathershannon. co forward slash dirty talk. Again, that’s heathershannon.

co forward slash dirty talk. And be sure to tell your partner or friends because everyone has something they would like to ask a sex therapist.