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Again, you got to own it on your blog to great exercises to write down everything that you’re insecure about that you can change and then figure out what is great about it. What are the pros, that’s the hardest can change. But what are the advantage of it that if you actually did it, you’d come up with a list of advantages of it, even something like that.
This is the ask a sex therapist podcast, helping you change the way you look at sex. I’m Heather Shannon. And in a world full of sexual censorship, I’ll give you the raw truth about pleasure, intimacy, in your relationships, and enjoying your body, because it’s time for you to ask a sex therapist.
Hey, everybody, and welcome to this episode of Ask a sex therapist. We are going to talk about why nice guys don’t finish last with Matt artisan, and I’m really excited about it. But before we get to that, I am going to read the review of the week. So if this is your review, reach out to us and you win a bundle of books on sex and relationships from my Amazon store. So this one says, Good job. I never thought that I would ever listen to a podcast like this because I never felt comfortable talking about this stuff, probably because I was raised in that way. But you made it very comfortable. For me talking about topics that are difficult for a lot of people to face including myself, really something else of a podcast. Keep it up. Thank you guys for that review. As always, they’re very appreciated, because I know most of you are probably driving, listening to this and have to remember later. So let me introduce today’s guest so we can get into our topic. Matt artisan is the leading expert in transforming the lives of men and empowering them to create authentic relationships. He was voted World’s Best New dating coach and over the past 10 years, has personally coached men in 40 different countries, and has been featured on ABC News, Nightline, Fox News Week, vice and more. So thank you so much, Matt, for being here. How are you? Doing good. Thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. So I will tell you guys a little backstory of how Matt and I know each other. So as you just heard from his intro, Matt is kind of a badass. And I don’t know if that was said the Netflix one. He’s also been on Netflix. We were part of like an entrepreneur house group thing in Rio de Janeiro, back in 2016. And this was before I was even a sex therapist. I was just a therapist at the time and kind of exploring digital nomad life. And, you know, Matt was already doing this coaching as we’ve been doing for a long time. You know, what’s up? And I’d actually love to hear Matt, and if you could explain to people like how did you get into this? I’m kind of curious, like, was there a little personal journey for you? Did you see that there was a need for it? Like, how did this come to be who it’s a pretty unique job? Yeah, that’s a good question. Heather. I definitely struggled quite a bit. In my teenage years. In high school and in college. I studied computer science in college and didn’t have a lot of friends didn’t know how to talk to women just felt very insecure, unsure of myself, like, no success with women, basically High School in college. I remember being so afraid to even like, like, talk to guys. I had a buddy in my computer science class, who introduced me to a bunch of athletic guys. I would Okay. intimidated, intimidated sitting with them for lunch every day? My sophomore year? I wouldn’t say anything. I would like say one or two words. Maybe for the whole Yeah, watch for 30 minutes. Well, it’s hard to believe just because, I mean, I think because like we hung out socially and like I know how you are now. It is hard to imagine. So this is like a full on transformation. Because I mean, when we were in Brazil, I remember you would just like chat up any girl on the street. Just like like it was a breeze. It was like when we’re like where’s Matt up? He’s talking to a girl. It was a long transformation. I started actually one of my first steps was starting a rock band. I thought that’s going to be fun. So in college, I started a band and we do paint well after a few bands wasn’t the first band that I started but after a few graduated, we became pretty successful. We toured with a bunch of big bands like Linkin Park. And about Yeah, yeah, we’re actually on MTV for a little bit. And so cool. So my confidence went way up and actually started getting successful for him. At the same time. I was reading like lots of books on confidence and what to say what to do when it came to approaching women. And it was easy in a sense, or easier having a band because I would just go through roles and be like, Hey, do you like rock music and playing in a band or playing at The Troubadour? Check us out. But for a while my competence was up, and then my band broke up in 2008. And that’s when things just went really bad. I felt like my whole identity was gone. And I felt even worse than when I had started, and then became kind of depressed. I had like, no money at the time. Oh, my God. So stressful. It was, I was it kind of makes sense, though. Like, I think go hearing your journey. It’s kind of like you’re propping it up with this, like external circumstance of being in a band, which I think we all look to like our external circumstances, sometimes to figure out or to try and make ourselves feel better. Like, if I have this success, then I can feel successful. If I, you know, have enough money, I can feel competent with women, if I have enough status, you know, muscles or my pace was if I have a certain level of fame or success, yeah. On stage, then they’ll think I’m cool. Right? It’s when that went away. It was like, Okay, now why would they like me? I don’t have that cool factor anymore. But worse. So how did you dig yourself out of that? This is like multiplayer journey. I like it. Yeah. started researching even more. And I started taking some workshops in Los Angeles, where I was living, there was some pickup artists, workshops there. Oh, yes. This one, I think I remember that guy magic. on MTV, I think mystery. Mystery. Thank you. Okay, yeah. That was like 2008. It was fascinating show. Yeah, that got me into a book game. And then it just started attending workshops, and there’s all pick up base, like, save this and do this. So the good thing is I went from focusing on having like having the success, then I’ll be good with women having things that’ll be good with women to doing, or doing stuff like running around approaching women all the time, which helps me get better and better. But I reached a point where I was getting success, the day on, my success started going down, because like I was trying to memorize all these things to say, and all these things to do. It became like having a giant file cabinet, we have so many files, it takes a while to access them. You know, I had like information overload. I was selling garage topics at the time with my computer science degree, my third. This is a great. I was selling garage doors or driving all over LA. But I was listening to all these CDs at the time. And just like filling my head with information. And it was around that time that I started teaching other people to I wanted to help other people with my bamboo Baba, right? What am I going to do with my life? Now I’m not gonna I’m not gonna sell drugs for the rest of my life. And I didn’t want to go into science anymore. And you’d read enough books by then I read it. And I realized, at one point, a guy in a workshop that I was just helping out that he went up to me, he was like, I can’t remember all the lines and routines that the guru taught. So I don’t know what to do. But I want to approach this girl. And I said something like, what do you want to say to her? What do you think of her? And yeah, it was I think she’s attractive. I think she’s cute. Yeah. So why don’t you just tell her that? Because Can you do that? S? Can you do that? Try it, did it and then he came back. He’s like, sounds so much easier. And that work? Oh, I love that. It’s like this cutting through instead of like the overthinking and trying to be a certain way. Exactly. Because when you when you’re focusing on the doing, it’s so much to think about and remember, and it becomes this analytical process and you become in your head when connecting with people is not an intellectual thing. It’s about just vibing with the person. And it’s about how you’re being and you know, more of a feeling. thing. And of course, women are not attracted to the logical things and are like, Oh, well, he makes this much money and he has muscles, so I will be attracted to him. No, it’s all based on how they feel. Focusing on on, not so much. But the being How are you so refreshing? And I love that you just kind of organically like found your way to what felt authentic for you as a coach and for your clients. Right? In the process? Yes, I mean, you’re just so you’ve been at this for a while. But I also feel like that’s Who makes the best coaches. I mean, people who have been doing this stuff for a while and have like been through their own journey. And I’ve also learned through helping others. So yeah, my business partner said, he asked me, How many days do you think you’ve been on? And I tried to, like calculate it. I mean, I don’t know I haven’t kept track of every single one. But it was like hundreds like probably over 500 Maybe 1000 And like 5000 approaches. You have to be up there because I’m probably close to three how 100 Personally, and I know you’re you’re well above where I’m at probably. And these are instant dates like meeting somebody and going on a date with him. Right? Right. Right there right then in there. Okay, can you just break down that concept because I don’t know that I’ve ever heard of that. You’ve never been on an instant date or heard that term. So explain it to us. It’s when a guy approaches a girl, usually in an everyday situation, like walking down a coffee shop, and go grab coffee right now. And you go hang out, you stopped doing whatever it was you were doing and you go hang out with it’s so interesting. I think I saw I did have one of those in January, actually. I was at pod fest, actually. And there was another conference and sat next to a guy at the hotel bar after not getting service at the tables. And we wound up chatting and then we went out to the karaoke thing. And I didn’t realize that that was an instant, Dave, I guess it was, yeah, well, I do with all the chatting back and forth. If you’re not busy, I know I think I think it worked out. It’s like you’re at a conference or like, if you’re on vacation, it’s probably easy. Like in everyday life, it might be a little more challenging, but kind of fun concepts of like, that’s another like cutting through like cutting through all of the like, back and forth and check your calendar. And, you know, yeah, that’s good. I like to and I recommend meeting people at the beach, if you’re living near a beach. We actually, I don’t know if you remember back in Brazil, I made a video with some of the people that were in our group on how to approach women at the beach. So anyway, it was the last day I think you’re there. That’s awesome. And but yeah, beaches, parks, people or places on the weekend, especially when people aren’t going to big hurry. Maybe like a farmers market? Shopping, they’re not in a hurry. Yeah. So okay, so can I tell you about a few of my clients situations that like Guy clients, especially talking about so I have a client that I’ve seen before, and I’m actually working with him again now. And so much about his life is improved, right. So it’s like, his mental health has improved, his general health has improved, his business is profitable and successful, he, you know, moved somewhere a little bit more in alignment for him. And the social piece just feels like a blockage still, you know, kind of like you were saying, like, even like, friend wise, somewhat, definitely dating wise. Sometimes he tries to put himself out there, you know, with people he comes across, but it’s like, something’s not quite landing. And it’s like, you know, it’s tough. It’s like, I’m not there. So, I, if I was, I’d probably have a lot more information. So I only have his perspective to go on. But yeah, like, what are the things that kind of could be going wrong when like, guys think they’re just being nice and friendly, and putting themselves out there and seeing if someone wants to hang out? And then the person kind of like, like, Okay, that was like, let’s not hang out anymore? Let’s not talk anymore, or no, no, thanks. What do you think, rather, guys, they have a lot of success in business. Because they’re smart, and they’re good at their job. But it’s also what they think about as far as like, how they’re being in a job situation is oftentimes, like just really nice and friendly to everybody. So they’re likeable. And so you know, their job is fairly safe. Everybody likes them. So translate that to dating. And they overdo it sometimes where they’re just like, overly nice, like, you want to be a good kind person. But you don’t want to be supplicating to that person, you don’t want to be bending over backwards. Because what happens is, the woman feels like, Okay, this guy isn’t being real. He’s putting on a front or a mask and pretending to be the super nice guy and giving me everything I want. And at some level, a lot of women like that. They’ll go on the trips with the guy and they’ll go and have expensive meals with them. Because who doesn’t like those things? They’re loose. They’re not attracted to him, or they are in the beginning, but they start losing attraction, because he’s just too nice. Which, again, she feels like that’s not the real him because that makes a lot of sense. He really wants a guy who is going for what he wants, like he’s not putting on a mask. Right? If you think you know, there’s something funny to teaser about. But yeah, he’s a woman, right? He would hide that part. He’s like, Oh, I can’t rock the boat. I have this beautiful woman I need to be on my best behavior. So he’s acting different usually than he is with his friends, although some nice guys, and that’s what we call them even though it’s like a misnomer, because, again, it could be a nice person. I don’t really like that term. Better term is worse. The guy who doormat. Yeah, doormat, exactly. Yep. People walk all over. Right and up for themselves. Yeah. Right and like the it’s like they’re putting, I think you might mention this in some of your videos, like they put the woman on a pedestal so there’s like, they’re like creating this power imbalance and like if somebody is trying to approach me, and they’re kind of putting themselves beneath me like I feel bad and it’s not attractive, you know? Yeah, a woman I will usually want the man that she deems is the same level or even like, she feels like Oh, this guy’s like, not necessarily better but just higher status or value or whatever you want to call it, not her we’re, you know, he has to do these things to impress her so that he can come up and pick up what they would teach is okay, she’s up here because she’s hot and the value unfortunately like a lot of it’s based on luck not all but and then you come in here because you’re not that good looking. You don’t have that great of a job you’re not a millionaire or whatever. Okay, you don’t have the muscles yet. So you’re down here down to your level by insulting her essentially, they call it neg. Oh, yes, nagging. Can you explain nagging because like I remember this. It’s a backhanded compliment. A compliment, but it’s more of an insult. And I used to do this I remember I would say things like, oh, go like this. You have some some eye boogers? Right. You serious? Oh, my. Funny. Funny, bad. Right. So I just I love that you’ve like gone through, like multiple transformations with this. So like, if you’re not nagging someone? How do you equalize the playing field? Like how do you so instead of bringing it down to your level, be up here? Because it’s yeah, it’s mostly a mindset. Yeah, there are other factors that, you know, make you seem like, you’re up here, if she’s a 10, year 10. But it’s really like how you see yourself. If you believe you are 10, or nine or whatever is equal to her, then you’re gonna come into that interaction, comfortable, calm, because she’s just another human being she has insecurities and fears, you’re not going to be like, Oh, my gosh, she’s perfect. I need to, you know, I’m gonna be nervous. If I’m talking to somebody that I think is way higher status than me and perfect. I’m gonna be super nervous. And we’re doing all these things to impress them, which, of course, we know, doesn’t impress them, makes them lose interest. Yeah, it does. So I guess I’m hearing you and I know how important confidence is. And like with when I think about sexual attraction, I think so much of it is like your sexual energy and like, what kind of energy you’re bringing forward. But I can see somebody listening and kind of being like, Yeah, but I don’t have the muscles and I don’t have the money, and I don’t have the looks or whatever. So like, you know, is that actually going to work? Like just telling myself to be competent? Like, how do you see people get there? And doesn’t really work when they feel confident, but don’t have some of those other things? Yeah, I mean, I’m not going to lie. Like when I had a band, I said, you know, if you have the money, or you have the look, the height, whatever those superficial things, it can help. But if you lose those things, then it usually all goes away like it did for me, right? Whereas, so that’s like external confidence. But we haven’t gone is it we do work on those things. Like we have planes that are overweight, we don’t lose the way that they dress. Well. We tell them, we show them how to dress like, we help them with their wardrobe and all of that because it does help for sure. For competence, which is really about loving yourself, and accepting yourself with your flaws as well, especially the flaws you change the ones who stand but there’s certain things you’re just never going to change like height or race, etc. Right? You gotta love yourself, despite those flaws, because if you don’t love yourself, you can’t expect somebody else to love you. But if you do, then somebody and maybe it’s not a flaw. I mean, I know I do think women are really superficial about height, which drives me crazy. And I tried to tell them not to do that. And there’s actually research the shorter guys are more satisfying husbands. So for my short kings listening, my one of my best friends is five one, everybody on five, one and three quarters. Before he was successful, he’s very successful in business now, but I knew him when he was just kind of getting started. And so you know, nobody knew who he was back then. And he still did really well with women. And because of his confidence, I remember when I saw him walk into the room, facilitating a personal development workshop that I was too He was like, Who is this guy? I didn’t think he was that short because he just had so much charisma. And you know, talking to him, it was all about the inner work that he did. Did Okay. Didn’t come to work because he was insecure about it. Of course. When I was teasing, I don’t change it. There was like a genie that could make them Yeah, I don’t think he would do it. That’s so cool. Cuz I mean, that’s pretty sure and like, most women are taller than that. So that I was like, really? Like five, nine or below. He wouldn’t talk to like he only goes for like 6369 I feel like I love him already. He’s on so delightful. He’ll be on the next. Maybe, yeah, maybe you should. Sounds like it’s good vibes. Okay, so. So competence does go a long ways, like the moral of that story. Yeah. And I don’t know that, like, every guy knows that. But there’s like, how do you develop it? So that’s what we help our clients? Do. We help them we go through a process or workshop? live workshops, also online to help develop that core competence. We bring in models so they can roleplay with the models so they can, you know, because that’s, like, all this shit comes up, right? The thing that keeps you from having core competence is all your baggage, your emotional baggage, your limiting beliefs, your sexual shame, all that crap. Yep. And piling up. And it’s like, it’s like, you know, it’s almost like, what’s the weather those cartoons, where it’s like a ball and chain, that’s what I’m thinking. Only makes that move forward until you cut off that ball chain. A lot of emotional baggage, it’s like, and I hear what you’re saying. It’s like, there’s kind of this ideal that’s presented to all of us humans about like, you know, this is what’s most attractive. And, you know, I tried to get people away from there’s one thing that’s most attractive, and like, what if we just erase that? And it’s like, just not even the case anymore? And what if we kind of are able to see what’s attractive by all sorts of different people, but we still live in this world. You know, there, we’re not there yet, as a society, we can we can work on it. But yeah, I love that idea of just owning it, like us that, you know, you said, owning your flaws. And I’m like, whether or not they’re like flaws, you know, perception. But like, I actually think it’s very attractive. I remember, someone I dated years ago, and I, we did it for a couple years. He was like a little OCD. And by little, I mean that you should be like, you would do a little routine before leaving his house. And it was like, when we first started dating, it was just like, Okay, I just wanna like, check the doorknobs to make sure things are locked. And then it was like, now I’m checking the stove, and I’m checking now let’s allow me to go through twice a day. I was like, oh, man, um, but he was like, kind of just like, whatever. This is just how I am. And I was like, ah, and it almost like trained me to be like, okay, whatever. I’ll just like, that’s how he feels. But that’s okay. I was like, okay, whatever, it takes him a couple minutes, let me go. directly, if it’s no big deal for the guy usually becomes no big deal for the girl. But if it is a big deal, and she can tell if you feel insecure about something, even if you don’t say it, you just tell me I’m gonna do it. And then that’s gonna be a turnoff. Right? Like, I was like apologizing every time sorry, I know, the problem I’m working on. Right. Exactly. And you probably get even more annoyed. Oh, for sure. So I think that and I feel like that would coins too. It’s like, we kind of train people how to react, you know, like I did an episode about, you know, herpes and the stigma around herpes. And, you know, I’ve had clients that I’ve worked with, it’s actually this is a fascinating one clients are just owned it and like, whatever I take the medication to prevent outbreaks has never been an issue with dating or relationships. And then you have other people, same issue, right? And they’re kind of like, Oh, my God, and anyone or like I, you know, I don’t I don’t know what to tell them. And like, How do I tell them and I feel like they’re gonna have a bad reaction. And then they have the lived experience of having people that have a bad reaction. So I do, I think we train people how to react to us. And again, it all stems from our insecurities. So you gotta, again, you got to own it own your flaws too great exercises to write down everything that you’re insecure about that you can change and then figure out what is great about it. What are the pros? That’s a hard change. But what are the advantage of it better? If you actually did it, you’d come up with a list of advantages of even something like that. I can already think of one like what if you, you have herpes and it forces you to like have an emotional conversation with someone before you have sex? And then you kind of see like, Is this somebody who you know, can handle that kind of conversation or not? Yeah, might make you more selective who you sleep with? Yep. Mm. There’s a lot of things that could come out of it. Yeah, I think so. That’s a fascinating exercise, though. So everyone, that’s your homework from that, to do an exercise on your perceived flaws and how they actually have benefits. I love that that’s just like a great way to turn things around. How else do you feel like people can improve their competence? Because I agree with you, I think competence is probably the main thing. How much of it is like, just practice with, like, attractive? Like, I think it’s interesting that you bring in models, and have these, you know, attractive women, for people to practice with. Because I do think it’s just experiential. And I think that’s where, you know, coaching and therapy is not typically experiential. And I do think sometimes people need to have a lived experience to help them shift their like neural pathways and thought patterns. Yeah, definitely, that kind of goes back to the different types of competence, right? There’s competence, confidence, which is like when you’re good at something, and you feel confident about that thing about doing this. I used to play guitar. So I was very confident when I had a guitar in my hand, going on stage and all that. But not in the beginning. In the beginning, I saw the first time I played it was terrifying. But it’s the same kind of thing with women. Right? So you can build confidence by talking to a lot of women by practicing, even in our mentorship, which is partly online, partly offline. Okay, you can practice role playing on Zoom every single week, multiple times a week. So they get that feedback. And then when they go out there, yeah, it’s not the same thing. But it’s the next best thing. Then they’re practicing a real women. And, you know, we’re analyzing those approaches to actually, you know, the more you practice, you get good at it. Yeah, I mean, I live workshops, we bring in live models, so they’re practicing, actually, body language and everything that’s fascinating, then they go out and field and we actually make them up and we give them feedback on their interaction. We’ve been filming them a little bit, so they can see it afterwards. Be like, look, what you’re doing, right? So helpful, get over, whatever. It’s fascinating. Because as I’m hearing this, and like, you have to be so brave, I think to like, go do stuff like that, and like be filmed. And so it’s interesting that like, we can be so brave in certain ways. And then like, not as confident or brave in other ways, and most guys have no issue with that. They’re like, yeah, like me, give me feedback. I mean, they’re nervous, you know, a lot of times, yeah, well, time. But yeah, with the nerves, we give them exercises to Okay, or, you know, breathing and more internal exercises to ground themselves and get present. Other exercises to like, take action right away no matter what. Okay, can you give us like one of each of those, because I feel like when I’m thinking of another male client now who is kind of like, what do I just What do I say to this girl, or I have a crush on this girl, or I saw this girl at a bar. And then like, we’re supposed to go up to her and be like, whatever. I’m like, I kind of said what you said like, just go say why you wanted to talk to it. Like there’s a reason you’re drawn to her. Like maybe just go say that, and don’t censor yourself. But I can imagine like, or like lower the stakes, you know, in your head, like quit making it like this? Day, but it’s not. It’s not the words that matter. We give exercises on some of our events. Workshops, like, go tell your favorite food, like that’s your opener. Like, what did you say? I enjoy absurd humor. So that would definitely crack me up. I’d be like, what? And they realize like, wow, that can even work because it’s not about what you say. Get it how you’re being. If you’re, if you’re having a good time, you’re gonna have a positive mental attitude. You’re enjoying yourself, and you walk up to her, like just saying hello. And we’re great. That’s one of my favorite things to do with like a girl walking down the street. I stopped her. So first, you know, I gotta stop or if I can just say hello, but she’s gonna walk right? Like, hey, one second, I gotta tell you something. Hi. Usually she’s like, lighting up. And she even like a little turned on? Yeah. Well, what you’re saying to me, it’s also like, there’s like a pattern disrupter like aspect of it. Where you’re just it’s like, almost like a like, Oh, that’s not what normally happens. You know, like, I can see being on the receiving end of that. And it kind of is like, oh, like you’re caught off guard but kind of in a fun way. Like you’re saying, yeah, when we can tell how you’re how you’re feeling how you’re being. So if I’d say hi, in a nervous way, she’s gonna be like, Okay, hi, what is going on? But if I actually feel turned on by her in that moment, you know, two seconds that she thought and I say it in a more turned on tone. That possibly will turn her on to even the word high because it’s not saying they can probably do it. Do not say anything, just look at her for three seconds. Like what? But yeah, if I’m doing it properly, like she’s gonna feel my intention even just, you know through the nonverbal, my eye contact tonality, all that well I guess there’s no formality but anything but we’re also talking about like everything you’re saying makes so much sense and I hope I would think that people listening also agree that it makes sense. But these guys were kind of like, oh well you know I’m too nice or like, now I gotta be a dick because all women want or like bad boys and so I’ve had enough people say this to me that’s why I reached out to you because I was just like, No, this is not the takeaway, you know, I think part of is what we said about putting women on a pedestal being a doormat, right? That’s not really what nice is so like, what do you think is that balance of like being a nice human like you’ve mentioned, but still flirty and bringing that sexual energy? Yes. Knowing your intention, because the thing about bad boys are assholes that women like, it’s not that they get treated like crap. But it’s that they’re real. And they make their intentions known. And they go for what they want. Without apologizing for it. Okay, no, they might hit the bad boy, they make it very clear. Like, I am not going to be in a relationship with you. We are only having sex. That’s it. And not necessarily like saying it like that, but just like, let that be known very quick. And then the nice guys wondering, like, why is she sleeping with him? He’s like sleeping with half the town. Yeah, because she met somebody authentic. That’s what it is. So if you can meet a guy who’s honest and authentic and masculine goes for what he wants, you know, isn’t afraid of it has boundaries. isn’t afraid to get his needs met? But he’s also a nice human. Like, he’s a Yeah, person. Right? What better than being an asshole looks like, he doesn’t get any anything. He just ends up in the friendzone all the time when he sees that or getting girls, right. But what’s better than that is not becoming the Ansel is becoming the middle ground. Whatever you call it, we call it the attractive man. Right? Trump, right. He’s a good, decent person is more Hey, doesn’t treat people like crap. He treats her with respect. Okay, he’s gonna be on his path, his purpose, even on the date, he’s gonna, he’s not gonna be like, hey, what do you want to do? I’ll do anything you want to do? No, he’s gonna say, Hey, this is what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna go here and here and here. And if she says, No, I don’t like that first place. And so I’ll be like, Well, too bad. That’s where we’re going. Right? attractive guy is going to say, okay, cool. We’ll go sum up. Like, nothing’s a big deal. He’s just like, Yeah, think about it. It’s like, okay, I mean, you might tease her and have fun with it. Right? But, you know, he’s just gonna keep leading in the direction that he want. He basically leaves in the direction that he wants to go. He takes her opinion, security safety, which she wants into consideration. Was the nice guys only cared about family cares about that. The asshole about that? Distracted Yeah, and is in the middle, like, he does what he wants. But he that makes sense for consideration. Right? Right. Right. He’s at least like offering a plan or like coming up with an idea, you know, because I think that’s the whole phrase, like a man with a plan. You know, like, I don’t want someone who’s dictating or telling me everything that you know what’s gonna happen, but if someone’s like, Hey, I know you like blah, blah, blah, I thought we can go here and like, oh, like, oh, that’s thoughtful. It shows initiative. You know, so to me that’s like that happy middle ground. But yeah, if somebody’s like, deferring, to me excessively, it also makes me feel like burden. Like, I have to now like figure everything out. And I thought where I was just gonna be able to like, relax and have a good time. And the other piece, I think it’s almost like he’s, this is the authentic piece. I think it’s like, he’s not really showing up. And that same relationship I mentioned with the OCG guy, it kind of ended because I feel like he was not showing up in certain ways. And like, no one wants to be in a relationship with themselves where it’s just like, you’re just they’re taking up space, you know, not having any ideas not having any opinions. Not you know, almost it’s almost like a people pleaser type of thing. Exactly. And it’s like we want I think all of us regardless of gender kind of music you like, oh, whatever kind of music you’d like honey. Exactly. Oh, no. It’s like, it’s like, I want to be in relationship with a person. Like, oh, reporting connect, we need to like all the same thing. It’s not true. You can like all different things may not a different thing. But but a lot about having the same or even similar interest. It’s about how you guys feel together and that you’re understood and that the other person lives. Since sitter’s you, yeah, and what is masculine feminine relationship? It says, you know, the man wise it shouldn’t say the masculine in the relationship because even yeah relationship or lesbian relationships still gonna have a masculine feminine system and the masculine is leading, because if it doesn’t then the person who is more feminine and the relationships become more masculine in that in those moments and they’re having too much depolarize either become kind of neutral like friends. There’s no masculine feminine polarity. Yeah. Or you just have like, you don’t like each other anymore. You fight. Oh, yeah. That’s interesting. I do think that happens. I mean, a lot of people I work with, it’s like, they’re, they come in this makes sense with with sex. It’s like, they come to me, and they’re great friends. But they’ve lost the sexual spark and I couldn’t eat because of the lack of polarity Right? Like, yeah, I was trying to like, Please, everyone else or so need a leader bedroom. Same kind of thing. I think a lot of relationships depolarize because you become so familiar with each other and comfortable. And then you’re not really like the man isn’t like, Manning up. Yeah, this big, you know, taking her on date and leading anymore. And then that can happen in the bedroom, too. He just get kind of complacent and lazy. And again, I’ve been on both sides. But of course, I’m sure it’s, you know, what’s the problem with men to help them? Yeah, right. Exactly. Because I also, I also have learned from doing my work that like, men like to, you know, have their partner initiate with them to, you know, like, they don’t want to feel like it’s like, hey, I want to feel wanted to you know, so finding a way to also make sure signals are clear. Because I’ve done I’ve had a lot of women, and maybe this is because they’re almost like too much in the feminine energy. I don’t know where they’re like, I wore a low cut shirt. That was like, that’s not the same as initiating. Yeah, it could be Yeah. And then she feels. And then she feels rejected. Yes. And I’ve literally had couples come in and and the husband’s like, Oh, she never initiates. And then I do a separate session with her. And she’s like, I’m always trying to initiate I was like, oh my god, do they have any idea? They’re literally having like an opposite experience of this. This is the problem with Yeah, male female communication. That’s what we have a book called The language of attraction that explains a man is very direct in his communication. And a woman or I should say, feminine, is younger, a lot more indirect. So in her mind, she’s like, I am initiating, I’m wearing a little dress, walked out naked for five years. Right. And I was wearing yoga pants. Yeah. And in his mind, he doesn’t see that as an initiating. He’s like, Oh, I’m trying to focus. We’re very singular focus. That’s another difference, right? Men are just focused on one thing. So sometimes, you know, they’re focused on their mission or whatever it is, and she’s doing that stuff. And he’s like, okay, yeah, whatever, honey. And then she feels totally rejected, because she came out with a push up bra, and you didn’t even know what it is right on the TV or whatever it is. Hopefully it’s not Yeah, it’s not but sometimes it is not even watching the game that’s like single focus. This is awesome and so helpful. And I want to be respectful because I know you have another call after this. So can you tell people like and I’m gonna get your book actually, it sounds great. And I would love to learn more about the polarities as well. So where can people find you where can they get your book? You know, who should reach out? Yeah, any guys I mean girl too, but we focus on guys we do have female followers for guys that want to just become the best most attractive version of themselves they know you know, they have some possible baggage or limiting beliefs. And you know, they want to ultimately attract the woman of their dreams. Then we we you know, we have a few different products like our book which can be found at the attractive man.com But our main focus is our coaching because that’s where we get cool real results. You know, reading a book Yeah, I can do stuff definitely. Is it? Yes, for sure to change my life for sure. And a lot of guys that are books have changed their lives. But of course, if they take action, yeah, like going out there and actually meeting women with a coach is worth going to get your results. It also sounds so fun. It’s like an adventure. devilment adventure Yeah, way out of your comfort zone. Go do it guys. Guys, so they’re all having a good time supporting each other. The kind of guys that come to us are good honest guys. We don’t get like douchebags and just like oh, just want to fit in harder girls. Not really good, honest guy. Successful guys focused a lot on their career usually haven’t had this part of their life handled. So. Yeah. And you’re like a walking example of what’s possible with it. So it’s pretty cool. Appreciate it. So yeah, you can go to the attractive man.com. You can also follow me on instagram Matt artisan, ma TT AR T is a n just like artists and artisan pizza. Yeah, we’ll link to it in the show notes, which I don’t know if any of you ever look at the show notes. We have like meticulous notes. So if you’re an Apple just scroll down from the audio player, Spotify that you have to go back to the menu and go to episode but you’ll see all the links there. And they’ll also be on my website, Heather Shannon Dekho. And you can just do forward slash E, and then the episode number. So it was episode one, Heather Chanda, co forward slash e one, and then you’ll find all the links there as well. So well, thank you so much for joining me, man. This was a really fun conversation. I feel like I learned a few things. And I hope that some of the nice guys listening will learn how to be the most attractive version of themselves so they can yeah, thanks so much, Heather is gone. All right. Bye guys.
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