Hey, everybody. I am here with a very fun guest today. We are going to talk to you about So get excited for that. Um, before we get into the topic, let me introduce her. So Dr. Kate Balistrieri is a licensed psychologist, certified sex therapist, and certified sex addiction therapist, PACT therapist, and founder of Modern Intimacy, which is a group therapy practice in Los Angeles.

Miami, New York City, Denver, and Chicago. She’s the host of the Get Naked with Dr. Kate podcast, and you can follow her on TikTok and Instagram at DrKateBalestrieri. And we will put the link to that in the show notes so you don’t get the spelling wrong, everyone. Um, but welcome, Kate. Thank you so much for being here.

And I’m really excited that we were connected and can talk about this pretty fun topic.

Yeah, thanks so much for inviting me on your show. I’m, I’m excited to talk with you about this as well. I think it’s probably the, the, one of the most asked about kinks that I get.

Okay. So let’s, let’s start by just telling people like, what is FINDOM? Like, what does it stand for? What’s the definition of it and what can I go from there?

so financial domination is where Somebody gets dominated in the realm of their finances, so this is different than pay to play different kinds of BDSM that folks might engage in. This is about really being controlled and dominated financially. So a FINDOM will tell you. What to buy them, in some cases.

And, we’ll give you lists of things that you can pay tribute to. And you will buy those gifts or send that dollar amount or that gift card. And, and being controlled in that way is where the arousal takes heed.

Okay, cool. So that, that makes some sense. And you kind of, I’m excited to learn more about this because I kind of get the general concept. But you know, of course, I’m curious about what, yeah, the deeper psychological aspects behind everything. So with the pay to play, how would you say that’s kind of different?

Or like, how would you define that as opposed to Findom?

So when, when I say pay to play, usually I’m talking about some sort of transactional experience. With, um, a sex worker, and that’s, that may or may not involve a kink, but it’s different than financial domination in the sense that the erotic charge is not to paying someone necessarily, or being told how to pay or what to pay and, and, or what kinds of gifts to tribute.

So the, yeah, the erotic energy is really around. Being controlled financially, and I think this is where a lot of the controversy around financial domination comes in too, because when we talk about sex and money, that’s where people feel the most vulnerable in life.

It’s true. Like, I sometimes think the only other topic people are less comfortable talking about than sex is sometimes money. So now, now we’re even like merging the two. So I hope everyone listening can hang in there if you’re uncomfortable. But just, you know, notice it if you are. Um. Yeah, so I think what I’m hearing is like, it’s whether or not the financial part is centered in the experience.

So like if it just happens to be a transactional sexual experience with, you know, an escort, a sex worker, even if it’s a dominatrix, the financial aspect isn’t the kink in sort of a pay to play scenario. Whereas with Fyndom, it’s all about that and like, how do you feel with that exchange of money?

yes, yes. And, and around being, um, Out of being powerless, being out of control, surrendering to someone else, taking over the financial decisions in your life. So on kind of a small, low risk scale, this can look like a Fyndham having a list of gifts or items that you can buy for them to pay tribute as their pay pig, which is what Financial domination subs are often referred to,

Hmm.

me, um, but on a bigger scale, sometimes financial dominatrices will Have access to people’s bank accounts, or we’ll tell them how to spend big chunks of money, big swaths of money, including things like how to direct their 401k or cashing out parts of their retirement account or their children’s college funds.

I’ve seen a lot of folks. Really go big in in the level of risk and the level of surrender financially that they’re willing to go to for this erotic hit. Now, that’s not every case. Most of the cases that we hear about or see online are kind of the smaller. Smaller situations or lower risk lower impact situations, but for some people it’s not exciting until it it is all consuming in their lives

my God. So, I mean, immediately, this is like the therapist in me. It’s like, my mind goes to, okay, so like, at what point is this healthy? And at what point is this not healthy for people? Like, how, you know, if this is something that someone listening is like, Ooh, this is sort of like titillating, or I am curious about this.

Like, how do you know when it’s healthy or not? On either side of it, I guess. Mm.

Yeah, this is I think the biggest question that comes up around financial domination, especially when people start to say well, that’s unethical That’s unethical because it goes against It’s financial exploitation, but it’s not because the parameters are mutually agreed upon. And just as they would be with any other kink or BDSM context, you have, say forwards, you have, you have stopped, you have stop gaps and measures that you can take to say, this is the line and I can’t go beyond this.

So where I think it can get really dicey is when people are using. Family money, family allocated money, or partner allocated money, and their partner has not consented. Now that doesn’t make it financially unethical, or it doesn’t make it unethical for the dominatrix, the fin dom, to engage with them.

That’s a relationship betrayal, a financial betrayal on behalf of the person who is It’s engaging in the kink, it might be an emotional or sexual betrayal too, but that’s not unethical on the part of the FINDOM, it would be unethical on the part of the person engaging in that behavior if they’re not sourcing those funds with the consent of a partner or whomever the funds are allocated, allocated towards.

Yeah, that’s a good point. So it’s kind of like, if it gets to a point where, you know, it’s impacting your relationships, or, you know, like when you said the kid’s college fund, I was like, oh my god. Like, like I felt uncomfortable with that one. But, um, Yeah, it’s really, it is really fascinating. Like, where do you draw that line?

Um, so, yeah, I’m just, yeah, I’m just super curious about this one. I’m sure everyone listening is also curious. So One of my thoughts is, you know, regardless of what the kink is, to negotiate those boundaries when you’re not sort of like intoxicated or like in the submissive role, you know, is, I mean, is that something that you advise for people to, if they’re

Absolutely. Absolutely. Like with any other kink, I think it’s really important that before you get into any play and you’re in that that space of dopamine and and all the all the other things. You know, fun neuro cocktail chemicals that are in there. Um, in the heat of the moment. Yeah. It’s important to really think about what are your limits when you’re in a clear headed state, what allows you to feel really excited, engaged, aroused, but also protects your ability to be a functioning human financially and doesn’t deplete. The thresholds that you’ve set for yourself in terms of what makes sense. And definitely, if you are someone who shares expenses or is building family wealth or family goals, really consulting the other people who are impacted by that as important. I’m not suggesting that you should ask your children how much to spend in your FINDOM hobby over the weekend.

But if you’re, if you’re, if you’re saving with a partner or you’re sharing expenses on caring for. Your parents with your siblings or

Mm hmm.

the funds that are allocated for those kinds of, um, expenses, but it is really important to note that this is a kink that really takes shape and form for folks who feel a high level of financial responsibility.

And here in lies where the charges of surrendering to being under the control of someone else’s financial direction. So it’s. Important that those negotiations happen when you are in a clear headed space and when you can sort of separate yourself from the play to make sure that it does feel aligned with your values when you’re not in the heat of the moment.

Yeah. So one of the, one of the other things, since we’re also focusing on, like, the, the arousal is kind of in the financial piece of it. Like, what’s the sexual component? Because I could see people being like, okay, so isn’t this just financial manipulation? Like, where’s the sexual part?

So the sexual part for a lot of folks who engage in this is for the pay pig or the sub is really around the way in which they tie the idea of that financial responsibility or the idea of money and power to their Usually conception of gender and their sexual prowess also tied to their conception of gender.

So for a lot of folks who engage in this kind of kink, I would say primarily it’s men who are the pay pigs and women who are the fin doms. Now, it doesn’t mean that the opposite can’t be true, but that’s primarily how this plays out. And a big part of that is because in Western cultures, men are primarily socialized to be the breadwinners.

They’re socialized to experience their masculinity and their sexual virility based on how much money they make and how well they provide for the people with whom they are in relationship. So the sexual charge is, is kind of like, I’m giving in, I’m surrendering in this, you have control over me, much in the same way that.

Um, engaging in kink with a dom but without a financial component can also tie into that gender role flipping, right? I’m going to flip the script and be really submissive or completely powerless here and that, and even humiliated in some

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

And, and that is where the power is. It gives men, the men who participate in this access to different kinds of feelings around money and sexuality and power that maybe they just don’t have the ability to have access to in their day to day lives.

Yeah, I think you’re bringing up so many good points here. And this is, this is part of why I love kink in general, because there is something so, like, subversive about it. It’s kind of like all of these societal agreements of this is how you’re supposed to be, and this is what’s accepted, and this is what’s appropriate, and, you know, and then sort of like let’s turn that on its head and, like, derive pleasure from turning it on its head.

And, and I think that Messing with sort of traditional gender roles in a number of ways can, can be kind of explored as a kink. So that, that makes a lot of sense to me. Um, I’m also wondering now because, you know, I’ve looked on some message boards for Fyndham and how do you distinguish, especially if you’re someone who’s like, okay, cool, like I’m a pretty, you know, financially successful guy.

This is a really interesting idea to me. You know, I think there’s a lot of people out there who are like, cool. Yeah. Give me your money. And maybe there’s not even a sexual charge, but they’re like, I don’t care. If you’re looking to give away some money, I’ll take some, you know? So how do you find someone who’s sort of a true Finn Dom and understands that dynamic?

Like what should people be looking for?

It’s a great question.

I think the lines are really blurry because there are a lot of women who don’t have the sexual charge around the money piece, but definitely are engaging in fin dom because it is a way that they can make money without necessarily needing to be sexual with someone that they’re playing with. Because most fin doms do not have sex with men.

their paypig,

hmm. Mm

even meet them in person. It’s really a kink that’s organized around this financial play. And for many of the paypigs who engage in it, it’s, it’s tied again to that humiliation. And so if there’s sex play, they may engage with it, um, uh, virtually with the or they may do it on their own time.

Um, So for a lot of women, this is a safer way to get into a space from a kink perspective that does allow them to earn extra money, but also to give them a sense of power over money. And that is something that a lot of women really struggle with. Uh, want and struggle to have experienced in their lives because of the financial subjugation that has existed for women for centuries and centuries and centuries, and only in recent decades have women started to have access to more financial independence.

So, for a lot of women, the arousal may or may not be to the financial piece, but there may be an empowerment piece that comes up around being able to. Have money be the source of control and power and humiliation and excitement?

Right. That totally makes sense. So maybe it doesn’t even have to be that there’s the sexual arousal on the side of the fin dom. It’s really more so about being on the side of the pay pig.

I think so, but, but I think there is an indirect arousal to money for the Findom, even if it’s not a direct, because what does it do for her? It probably makes her feel very powerful or gives her a greater sense of security if she’s doing it

Mm hmm.

right? There are different ways that holistically that can increase a sense of excitement.

It,

That makes sense. So I guess I’m kind of curious and you, you started to get into this a little bit, like, is the Fyndom typically sexual? Is there something expected in terms of like, Hey, you’re giving me this, all this money. And, you know, and the paypage, like, well, I’m only going to do that if you do X, Y, Z, or is it kind of like, no, it’s really just about the financial exchange and there doesn’t need to be sexy pictures or online, you know, sexting or video, It’s just really, almost just like money and some texting.

it really varies, right? Kink it, one of the things that I love so much about kink is that it’s not a cookie cutter, um, square peg, square hole kind

Mm hmm.

There’s a lot of blurred lines in kink that, and when I say blurred lines, I mean, there’s a lot of overlap. In what can turn people on. So for some people it might be really exclusively about the money and there might not be many sexual images exchanged.

There might be a co occurring humiliation kink that goes along with being financially controlled or degraded. And so it’s. It’s not really about seeing sexy images of, of the fin dom or having her want to play even in a sexual way. It really could be about submitting financially to this person and engaging in that kind of exchange.

Um, for other folks, there might be more of an overlap with needing some erotic imagery or needing to see some of that. Power exhibited in a visual way.

Oh, that’s kind of interesting. So it’s not even so much like the Fyndham would then kind of owe this person something. It’s more of them exhibiting the power. That does seem like a very different dynamic.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know that a Dom ever owes a sub, right? In that way, if we think about it, right.

Except for like respectful negotiations. That’s about it.

of course, of course, and, and attunement and those kinds of things, but a sub, whether we’re talking about a financial domination sub or somebody who’s engaging in different kinds of bottom play, um, It’s not that kind of quid pro quo exchange.

See, that’s more of that transactional pay to play, but the, the fin dom, a way to think about it is that they are being, they’re, they’re usually. receiving some sort of devotion or tribute or worship in some way. So, you know, they, they’re doing more of the receiving and what they give to the pay pig in response is the control over their money or the humiliation or that experience of being in, in devotion.

That makes sense. Sort of the, the worship aspect or the, it just admiration of power, um, absolutely can be a turn on for a lot of people. So where would someone go to explore this if, if they’re kind of like, Ooh, I’m intrigued. What are some sort of places to start or tips you’d have for them?

Yeah, there are folks who will announce that this is what they’re into on apps like Field. Um, there are some FinDoms who have their own websites and some who maybe are on the OF platform. There are some that are. Talk about it on apps like Tik Tok or even on what was formerly called Twitter. So X now,

So

uh, that’s a separate conversation. Um,

Interesting though, so people just put it out there on social media sometimes.

they do. They do. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I think I’ve mostly seen it on FetLife and some groups that are, you know, like FinDom groups and it sometimes does just seem like the, the quote unquote doms are just like clamoring for money sometimes.

And like, they’re often the ones kind of posting. And so I think that’s part of, um, what’s confused the dynamic for me a little bit too, is because it doesn’t seem. Very powerful. You know, um, and so I was like, okay, like, what does this look like when, when done a little bit better? Um,

Well, that brings up your point from before, right? How do you discern who’s a true Dom and who’s maybe, maybe entering into kind of a, a sex work light.

Mm hmm.

experience, but this is a safer way to do that. And there definitely are a lot of, a lot of women who do find this a safer entry point into that kind of transactional experience.

So it may not be the kind of power and charge that somebody’s looking for, but it might also be the right fit for somebody who also feels a little apprehensive about getting really involved. And so this could be kind of a lower stakes way of learning how. It feels for somebody on both sides of the equation.

That makes sense. So I know you said this is one of the kinks that kind of most intrigues you or that you find kind of most interesting. What do you think it is that you’re like, okay, yeah, this one’s cool.

Um, it, for me, it really is about flipping those gender scripts. And I really champion when people are willing to say unconsciously or consciously to themselves, I want to do something subversive there, because to me, that’s about understanding that you’re very polarized. In your gender identity or gender expression in some way, or, or the responsibilities that come with how society puts that on you and the.

fears or the guilt or the shame that might come with stepping away and, and having a different experience of your own gender. So when people play in that space, um, in a mutually agreed upon, a mutually negotiated consensual kink space, I think, wow, how brave, how bold, how exciting that they are giving themselves permission to feel something really different than what they feel they have access to in their real lives.

And to me, that’s the whole point of sex and especially kink is to play in the fantasy and really Of course, have pleasure, but also it’s just a different way to learn about ourselves and learn about how we want to feel, who we want to be, and to stretch the possibilities of that knowledge.

I love that. And I think the way you’re presenting that to me, it’s like, it sounds like it could be healing for people. Like, do you find that? That people feel healed by that?

I do. I do. I really think that there’s some counterbalance when we look at what we get out of kink. And many people are drawn to kink without having any trauma in their lives that directs them there. But for some people who do have trauma in their lives, kink, and specifically the care, the communication, the attunement, the negotiation, the boundaries, the safety of kink can be An incredibly reparative experience.

They may or may not be seeking that out, but they often find it and talk about how much they’ve learned about themselves, how much they trust themselves and a partner who is a safe enough partner. Um, it can be really, really helpful. Really healing.

I would say if you’re going to engage in FINDOM and you are in a partnership, this definitely can very quickly, um, Become a multiple betrayal. If your partner is not aware that this is exciting for you.

I’ve worked with so many couples where there’s been this financial betrayal on top of the sexual and emotional betrayal. And a lot of folks don’t necessarily. Couple all of those kinds of betrayal together because for them it’s exciting and they want to engage in this play and and that’s Fine, I get that and most of the time partners understand it I shouldn’t say most of the time often partners will understand it conceptually but when you don’t talk with your partners ahead of time about how much money you can allocate toward this and Set a budget for yourself if your partner Understands and you guys have those fidelity agreements that you can have things outside of each other in terms of how you play, um, if partners don’t consent to that ahead of time, they often feel incredibly unsafe and it can very quickly escalate.

relationships ending. So it’s, it’s something to really think about because it just upends so much security when somebody hasn’t said yes to, um, their money being included in how this plays out. And I don’t just mean the money that they earn, but the money they think they are sharing with you in a build towards something financially.

So. Super important to talk with your partner ahead of time and make sure that you’re on the same page,

I can see that and I mean certainly like it hasn’t been exactly finned on but you know I’ve had clients where their patrons of you know cam girls or other kind of sex workers and There is sort of that double guilt of like I’m doing something sexual that is somewhat interactive with someone else and I’m spending, you know, 500 bucks a month that my wife doesn’t know about, you know, so for sure I can see that.

And sometimes that financial piece even produces more guilt or more distress, um, than the sexual piece of it. So that makes sense. The other question I have is sort of, Maybe more, um, just logistical, like how do people exchange money and how do you exchange money in a safe way, especially if maybe you’re not wanting to, you know, reveal your identity and have it like posted to your Venmo or something.

Yeah, it’s a great question people are super Creative about that, but a lot of people do use Venmo and and yeah, or they’ll Yeah, or they’ll be surprised on how many people will pay directly from their bank account. We have to remember that there is something about being controlled financially and so the risk of identity and the risk of someone having um, that information can amplify some of the sexual interest and, and erotic charge around that.

So you would think that more people take extra steps to keep their,

I would, but yeah,

protected, but many don’t. That’s part of the thrill.

Wow, that’s fascinating. I mean, like, hearing you say that makes me think that so much of this is actually about vulnerability in maybe just an unexpected way. It’s like, yeah, you’re trusting someone with some pretty major personal details.

Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of how folks do it, um, a lot of the FinDoms will create an Amazon wishlist, for

Mm

So, someone can go, that protects both parties. Someone can go to their Amazon wishlist and buy whatever items they’d like to buy for tribute to the FinDom. And then the FinDom’s address is more safe.

They can choose a P. O. box instead of having it go to their home. And also the paypigs information is kept protected. So for a lot of folks, that’s a safer entry point.

Okay. How do you develop intimacy in this types of relationship? Like, I’m, I’m curious what you see in terms of, do people really get to know each other? Or is there almost some excitement in the risk and the anonymity?

It’s both. It really depends on each person, right? Some folks do want more of that connection and that intimacy, and they will develop a longer term relationship with a FINDOM. And that can look like communicating over a platform, whether it’s FetLife or Field, um, or even Tumblr. I think there are a lot of forums there.

Um, Or there’s more of a parasocial dynamic, like with OnlyFans or with some of the content creators who might use other platforms to engage with paypigs. But a lot of it is not super intimate in that way. It’s more of a briefer interaction.

Okay.

But, you know, they do, they, some people will exchange texts.

Their phone numbers and use text message exchange or snapchat, things like that. So they, they do connect with each other. It really, again, depends on the level of risk that each person is willing to engage in. And there have been some really, um. Unfortunate outcomes for folks who have engaged in this behavior, uh, I was, there’s a really interesting and unfortunate case where a man paid tribute to a woman by buying her, I believe it was a fireplace, one of those

it’s very specific and interesting. Okay.

Yeah, and she didn’t have her address on lock and or he was able to figure out where it was delivered. I’m not exactly sure. The onus is on him and the accountability is on him. I’m not victim blaming at all. Um, he somehow found her. home and decided he wanted more of a relationship with her and broke into her home and was living in her home unbeknownst to her.

He was living in her attic for a period of time.

oh my God.

Yeah. And would take videos of her at night without her consent. He even stole some of her underwear, but he was arrested and, and the case was recently heard. So, I mean, it is not, It is important to keep yourself safe until you know you can trust someone.

That’s a really good point. Yeah. And I, it’s interesting talking on this. I definitely feel like I am more on the conservative side of like, let’s put in all the precautions and how can they know, like, no information about you. But I can also see when there’s, you know, maybe a sense of trust builds up over time that, you know, people gradually reveal more like they wouldn’t any relationship really.

Um, but yeah, I probably wouldn’t recommend starting with like sharing your home address or bank info. Um, yeah. But yeah, it is really fascinating. So I appreciate you just kind of sharing all of this with me and with the audience and, um, yeah, so I guess if people are curious about this, my other question would be if I can see people kind of being like, okay, cool.

This sounds interesting. You know, I can go on social media. I can go on, you know, field or only fans or fat life. Um, you know, Do they, is there sort of like a first step that, you know, you recommend or, um, what, what would sort of be like the beginner dip your toe in version from either side? Oh,

you’re going to be a FinnDom, what I think is a really smart place to start is actually to try and connect with someone who is a FinnDom to, uh, Have them work with you as a mentor. And of course, you’re going to pay tribute to them. No one works for free.

This is a great point.

yeah, but I think it’s really important to have a mentor in this space who can teach you about safety, who can teach you about boundaries, who can teach you about safety.

Some of the different intimacy needs that different paypigs will have and how and help you craft how you want to address those different needs because there are differences in how each sub or each bottom, each paypig will want to engage with you. So learning to think about your own limits. your own interests and crafting that persona as a fin dom is important.

So there are many who will work with you if you can, you know, take them on as a bit of a coach or a mentor or a consultant and help train you. And I think that’s really smart, especially because for a lot of For a lot of folks, the, the, well let me say that a different way. For some of the men who want to play in this space, there can be a tremendous amount of shame or fear, especially if they think their partner might find out about it and they haven’t, they don’t have agreements around this with their partner.

So what can happen and what can increase the risk of, um, unsafety for FINDOMS is that somebody can. engage in this behavior and then have a lot of remorse or fear around it and then want their money back or want to Kind of undo the scenario or they might claim that now they’ve been exploited, right?

When in fact it was consensual play so it’s it is really important from a safety perspective if you’re gonna go into this space to really be clear on your agreements and to have some safety precautions in place. So getting a mentor is where I would start.

Okay. That’s a really good point and I think that’s something that’s underutilized and sex and kink in general. Um, I think there’s always this idea that like, well, you’re just supposed to know, or you’re just supposed to be good at something right away, you know? And it’s like, I just think that it can do so much harm.

So just to kind of have a little bit of, you know, beginner’s mind, like it’s, you know, cool. This is a fun new thing to explore. Find someone who can be your mentor or teacher, be willing to compensate them for that. Um, And I actually don’t think it would be too hard to find a mentor. You can tell who’s doing pretty well.

You can,

Yeah. Like if you’re looking, you’ll figure it out. Um, that’s really good advice. And then, uh, any advice on the pay pig end? Like if, if someone’s wanting to be more submissive in a financial way, um, do they need a mentor or is it more so just like, you know, assess your own boundaries and kind of have those in mind?

Um, I think it’s really important if you, if you’re going to get into this to vet a fin dom pretty appropriately. And what I mean by that is to, um, ask for, Testimonials ask for any kind of information that helps you feel a sense of safety with with regular BDSM. That’s not financially organized. We often will vet the DOM and make sure that that DOM comes with some safety credibility.

So I think the same is true here. And Same when you’re starting to do this research, you can tell who’s doing really well, and you can talk some, some fin doms or some doms in general will have like communities that they engage with. And so there’s open chat that you can talk to other folks who have paid with paid and played with a fin dom, you can kind of get some feedback there.

But I do think it’s also really important to secure some safety precautions on on your side. Maybe open a separate bank account if that’s accessible to you so that most of your funds are protected and there’s no access there, but you have this separate place that maybe you can set up just for this kind of experience, and that gives you some some safeguards.

So one, you’re not going to spend past your limits, but also it protects your identity a little bit more. So I think that’s a really smart way to start. The other thing to do is to get more curious about what limits you want to set in terms of the finances that you want to spend, because it can be really exciting.

Mm hmm.

one of the biggest regrets I hear from the men that I work with in this space is, I spent more than I wanted to, and now I’m financially in trouble. And it’s, Easy to do, especially in this economy.

I can see that, right? I mean, right. It’s fun. And maybe you’re like, Oh, I have the money or it’s, it’s fun when it hurts a little bit more or something. Um, almost more of that like emotional status or masochism

Mm hmm.

Um, But yeah, it’s like, I would encourage people to write it down too.

It’s like when you’re, it’s almost like when you’re sober, sexually sober, the hormones aren’t taking over, you know, to write it down. And then if you’re having a moment to be able to kind of refer back to that, like, okay, this is what my clear mind told me before I got into this altered aroused state, you know?

completely. I agree. And that’s one of the benefits of setting up a separate bank account or having one credit card that you use. You do have a clearer limit there and you’ll know when you reach it.

Well, this is a fascinating topic and I appreciate you coming on and just kind of sharing more about what you know, because you know a lot about this. I’m impressed. You know, um, it’s cool. So yeah. And if people are curious, you know, either about this or about just working with you in general, where can they find you?

thank you. They can, they can go to my website. It’s probably the best place to start. It’s modern intimacy. com. And I do have some articles on our blog about financial domination. And yeah, I’m happy to help consult with folks who are looking to inch into this space if that’s something that feels exciting, but you don’t know where to start.

Yeah, cool. And then, uh, we mentioned this at the beginning, but, um, Dr. Kate is pretty active on TikTok and Instagram. So you can check her out there and she’s got her own podcast called Get Naked with Dr. Kate. So definitely go check that out and follow it. And, uh, thank you again so much for being here and I look forward to, you know, more chats and collaborations.

Likewise. Likewise. This was so fun. Thank you.

Thanks. Bye, everybody.

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So if you’re the receiver of the anal sex, you might be thinking, you know, You know, I don’t normally put things in my butthole, right? And are things really supposed to go in there? And is this going to feel really uncomfortable? And is this going to feel really painful? Right? And so there might even be some, like, dread of like, Uh, I really, really don’t want to try this.

So that could be on the physical side. On the emotional side, There could also be some fears of, you know, especially if you’re a woman, I would say, um, although certainly none of this is really a gender discussion. It can apply to people of any gender, but you might think, you know, what if I like it? There could even be a fear of liking it.

What will that mean about me? What does that say about me? What kind of person does that make me? And I think you probably know my answer. It doesn’t say anything about you except for that you like animal sex. That’s it. You can still be a good Christian. You can still be a kind person. You can still love animals and volunteer.

It does not say anything. And I guess part of why I wanted to get into that a little bit is, you know, sex has been so Connected to morality and our culture and it’s not a moral issue. It’s not. Um, it’s only a moral issue. If you are violating someone’s consent and like, not being a kind consenting adult person.

Right? So. What you like sexually does not say anything else about you. Alright, moving on from that, um, there might also be a sense of, you know, pressure versus trying to be open minded. It could be that one partner really wants to try anal sex and the other person really doesn’t. Or, if you’ve already been there, done that, one person wants to have anal sex more often than the other person does.

And so, you know, how do you navigate that? So I’m going to start with The people who have not tried anal sex or very limited and what are some ways that they can kind of baby step their way towards that? And I’m going to get into not just anal sex per se, but anal play because they’re very interconnected.

So let’s break it down. If you’re thinking of having anal sex, you’ve never done it before. There’s a little bit of nervousness. There’s a little bit of, you know, fear that there could be some pain. Where do you start? So I’m going to recommend starting with lube. No, I’m kidding. I’m kidding, but not kidding.

What I would actually say is start with making sure you’re turned on, right? And then relatively relaxed. And so, you know, if we’re nervous and stressed and anticipating something negative like pain, we can often be more tense. Which is going to make it worse. So do whatever relaxes you first. That could be taking a walk outside.

It could be doing some meditation. It could be I think maybe some kind of partner exercise. Maybe you do some tantric breathing where you kind of synchronize your breathing and make eye contact while you’re doing it and You know, something that gets you out of your typical day to day, something that gets you out of your, you know, fight or flight mode and puts you into relax and sexy mode.

So that’s going to be step one. Then the next step is going to be making sure you’re turned on. And this is actually interesting. The more we’re kind of turned on or like thinking sexy thoughts, the higher our pain threshold is. So fascinating, right? But it makes sense because sex is pleasurable, and so it’s kind of this counterbalance to the pain and taking that time, and I want to be like kind of specific here too, it’s time not just for physical foreplay, but for mental foreplay too.

So it could be flirting throughout the day, it could be going and buying some sex toys together, um, which can come in in a later step. It can be, uh, you know, just giving each other compliments or hinting at what’s to come, and flirting, or going out to dinner, or really connecting emotionally. You know, whatever kind of does it for you.

And from there, so now you’re kind of relaxed. Returned on then that’s where the lube comes in and potentially toys come in so The reason you want to, my, my, my philosophy, my mantra, if you will, with anal sex is lube, lube, and more lube. And so, if you remember nothing else from this episode, I hope that you remember that.

So, this can apply to anal toys, like anal beads, or butt plugs, or any other anal toys that you choose to use, and anal sex. If you are putting something into your anus, without lubrication, there’s a really good chance that you could tear something, create an anal fissure, uh, give yourself hemorrhoids, which, you know, then never fully goes away and you’re more likely to get them the rest of your life.

So it’s a whole thing, right? And so even if you’re super turned on and like, I’m ready to go, let’s go. Do not skip these steps. You will regret it. And you’re going to thank me later for this. So, all right. So then you might want to get some toys. And so there’s a few options, right? Like you can try. a butt plug and they make them in different sizes.

So I would say get a body safe material. Um, there’s a really nice brand called Enjoy. I think it’s literally the letter N in the word joy that makes stainless steel ones that have some like weight to them. And you can also experiment with, you know, what sensations do you like? Do you want to feel like there’s some weight to it?

Do you want one that has sort of a metal ball in it that jiggles around and creates a sense of movement? Um, do you want something that You know, gets bigger as you insert it further. Do you want something that, um, vibrates, you know, there’s so many options out there. So I do think some toy shopping can be kind of a fun thing.

Um, and usually people who work at toy stores will be able to advise you properly. Um, And you need to keep in mind too. So when I first went to sex toy stores, I was so uncomfortable. Um, so uncomfortable and kind of like, uh, I don’t want to say anything to anyone. I’m also going to say not all sex toy stores are created equal.

So, Still my favorite one I’ve ever been to are the Pleasure Chest stores, and I’m from Chicago. They also have them in L. A. and New York, uh, working on getting them to sponsor the show, so maybe I can hook you guys up with a discount, but, um, They’re great and their staff is really educated and it’s kind of this like upscale environment a little bit where it doesn’t feel seedy And it doesn’t feel odd being there.

Okay. So anyway, so you’ve got your toys. You’ve got your lube There’s also fingers right now. You can use your finger to kind of stimulate someone anally however, keep in mind that you know Excrement poop is not sanitary Right? And so then if, if you do that, that finger is now contaminated for the rest of your sex session.

And so you have to kind of keep that in mind, like you want to then deal with like stopping what you’re doing, getting up, washing your hand, or just kind of having to remember the whole rest of the time, like not to really touch your partner or yourself with that finger. And I know you’re like, Whoa, Heather, I didn’t know we were going there today, but we are, we’re going there today.

And I’m just saying this because you got to have all the information, right? And like, think about what you’re doing. Um, we don’t want anyone getting any infections or bacterias where they’re not supposed to be. So, so my personal choice for that reason would be toys. Or, you know, maybe put like a condom on your finger or something like that.

Also, Be aware of fingernails. So for these reasons, I’m just like fingers at your own risk, people. That’s kind of how I feel. Um, so you can find a small dildo, something narrow. You want to look for body safe materials. I mentioned the stainless steel. You can also go with like a high quality silicone. Not all silicones are created equal.

And this is also where, um, it’s, it’s good to go to a sex toy store and talk to the person that works there about which brands and which toys. Thanks. They like and know are legit sometimes when we’re buying online, it’s hard to kind of get that level of information. So I would say if you’re, if you’re working on your comfort level, sexually, go, go to a sex toy store.

Just that experience alone could help you feel more comfortable, less stigma, less shame. And for me, part of my journey was going to the pleasure chest and realizing. Damn, like, these people are truly comfortable talking about, you know, the nitty gritty of sex all day long. Like, there’s no shame in their game.

And really, it kind of, um, that example, it really modeled something for me of, like, I can be that free, huh? Like, I can just, like, that’s possible. That’s a possibility. I don’t think it was really, In my realm of possibility before having that experience that someone could be so educated and knowledgeable and comfortable and just like own it and be helpful and like care about other people’s pleasure.

You know, so I think it’s actually a good goal for all of us. All right. So anyways, back to the anal sex. So, so you’re relaxed. You’re aroused. You’ve got your lube. You’ve decided what you’re putting in the butt and then you might want to ramp up. So I would say, I would, this is why I like butt plugs too.

So butt plugs are great because you could just leave it there, right? So you can do other stuff, you know, kind of let your bucket used to something. being in there is a different sensation, right? The other nice thing about butt plugs and you want to look for something that has a, like, I’m going to get this word wrong, flange.

I think the word is flanged, ed, ed, end to it. And that we’re getting so specific today. That’s so your butt doesn’t swallow it basically, um, prevents it from getting sucked all the way up into there, which is a thing that can happen. Um, so be aware of that. And, um, yeah, so you can. Leave it in there for 10 minutes, maybe something like that, and then if you want to go ahead and try anal sex, you’re going to be a little bit more ready for that.

So you can then remove the butt plug. You should still be relaxed, turned on, and now feeling more ready for that sensation. And then you can kind of just go for it. And when I say go for it, I mean, lube, lube, and more lube again, and then I also mean, um, that you want to, uh, control the pace. And if you’re feeling like, ooh, this might be a lot for me, and if you’re, if you’re, Experimenting with anal sex using, you know, a penis that’s really large or a larger dildo.

First of all, if it’s a dildo, I would say don’t start with a large one. Start with a small one. Um, if it’s a penis, you can’t really control the size of your partner’s penis. So it is what it is. Um, but then go slow. And one option that I really, really like for people is that if you’re the receiving partner, have the partner with the dildo or the penis stay still And you control the motion.

So that’s going to really allow you to make sure it’s not too fast, to make sure it’s not too painful. And that would be something to talk to your partner about ahead of time. So plan, talk to each other a little bit, discuss. Um, I also love the idea, and my clients have received this really well too, of almost having like practice sex.

So if you’re going to try something new, take the pressure off, lower the stakes. And so if this is something that’s newer to you, or at least new with this partner, maybe. to kind of say like, Hey, I’m not so sure how this is going to go. Can we just like give it a whirl with no expectations? And if I need to stop after five seconds, we stop and it is what it is.

And then we’ll just cuddle or we’ll just make out or whatever you two decide. Right? Um, so that would be my suggestion for that. Now you might want to, as you get more comfortable, you might want to go faster. I also want to explain, um, you know, sex can feel different with different partners. So just because you tried it with one person, Doesn’t mean, and let’s say you didn’t like it.

Let’s say it’s like, no, I tried it once. Not my thing. Um, I will also add that was my personal experience. I tried it once. I was like, Nope, not for me. Um, And also you, you hear a lot from, I think I had heard a lot from other women that like, oh, it’s kind of painful or it’s uncomfortable. It’s like for men or like, this is something men enjoy or want to explore, but we’re not supposed to enjoy it.

And so I didn’t. Um, however, knowing what I know now, did I follow those steps? No, there’s no way I perfectly follow those steps, right? Um, so know that like, if you haven’t loved it in the past, that doesn’t mean don’t try it again if you’re still curious about it. Because, you know, the thing is, There’s a lot of nerve endings in our butt area in general, but specifically the anus has, there’s a lot of nerve endings, and there’s a lot of potential for pleasure there.

And I think the more we can be open to all parts of our body, bringing pleasure, maybe, maybe I’ll do, um, an episode on our like inner arm one day, who knows, but the idea is why are we limiting ourselves? It’s not about our body. It might feel good to our body. It’s typically about our minds. So notice that too.

What are the thoughts you’re having that are maybe getting in the way? What meaning are you making out of this? Because really on a factual level, it’s completely neutral. It’s like penis or dildo or whatever meets butthole. Okay. If we make that good, if we make that bad, if we make that mean we’re slutty, if we make that mean we’re awesome, if we make that mean we’re like a little kinky and, you know, like to spice things up, that’s all just made up.

Alright, so I hope that that helps you to feel a little bit more comfortable maybe broaching the topic. This would be a great episode to share with your partner if it’s something you’ve been talking about. Um, and then once you get comfortable with anal sex, you can kind of You know, play with it or play with, you know, play, as I mentioned before, maybe you try different toys.

Maybe you try, you know, beads. Maybe you try a larger dildo. Maybe you try pegging your partner, which is when we should do a whole separate episode on that. That’s when somebody that doesn’t have a penis uses a strap on to inly penetrate. Um, someone else, typically someone with a penis, um, and so that’s a whole other way to play with anal sex and, uh, anal pleasure in general.

So don’t be shy, bring up the topic if you’re, if you’ve been anal curious, let’s say, and let me know what you think of this episode. I’d be so curious to hear from you guys. As always, I appreciate your ratings and reviews. We are. Inching our way up. And what I appreciate even more is when you shared the episode, uh, with someone that you wanna play with, or just a friend that you wanna chat with about sexy stuff.

Um, and I wanna thank you guys too for just supporting the show and, you know, getting the word out there. And, and most importantly, I think like being on this journey, like to me, exploring sex is about. Being on a journey where you get more and more comfortable with yourself where you get more and more comfortable with embracing pleasure You get more comfortable talking about sex and being able to have these communication, uh, this communication, these conversations with your partner.

And also just even acknowledge for yourself, like, this is what would be fun for me, right? And the, cause the more we can allow it, the greater freedom we can have, the more pleasure we’re gonna experience. You know, and sometimes we have to do some work to kind of make sure we feel safe and secure and good first.

Right? And that’s even kind of why we do the baby steps with the anal sex and anal play. And I guess I also want to mention with that, you might try some of this and decide, you know what? I think I’m fine with just, you know, a finger in the anus or a small butt plug or a small dildo. And I don’t want to actually have anal sex.

You get to decide wherever it is along the spectrum of anal play or sex or anything for that matter. You know, where’s your sweet spot? What feels good and right for you? And then communicate that to your partner and just kind of own it. So anyways, I hope this was helpful. You guys, um, kind of a fun topic and, uh, let me know what you think.

I’m on Instagram at ask a sex therapist, just like the name of the podcast. Um, and we’ll put some links in the show notes for, uh, any products that, you know, I mentioned that I think could be helpful. Um, and also we do have a free Facebook community. So if you want to kind of discuss the episodes further, you know, find out about other workshops that I’m offering.

I do have some coming up on sexual communication. do a free one on that and then I’m also going to do a free one coming up. So make sure you get on the email list. Um. Which you can do at my website, uh, with one of my prior guests, Chris True, the comedian who did air sex championships. Um, we’re going to be doing a free workshop coming up.

So anyways, thanks you guys for listening as always, and we’ll catch you next Monday. 📍